Destination: Italy - travel and tenkara in Italy, a conversation with Vito Rubino

0:00This is Daniel Galhardo and you're listening to the Tenkara Cast, a podcast about the simple Japanese method of fly-fishing, Tenkara. In the Tenkara Cast we'll be sharing information on techniques, history, philosophy, and Tenkara stories from anglers all over the world. This podcast is brought to you by Tenkara USA, introducing Tenkara outside of Japan since 2009. It's only possible we create content such as this podcast and videos because of your support. So we thank you so very much for purchasing Tenkara USA rods, lines, and flies. I hope you enjoy learning more about the simple method of fly fishing. So today we talked to Vito Rubino, who is from Italy. He's one of the best Tenkara ambassadors in all of Italy. He really is passionate about spreading Tenkara and making fly fishing more accessible in Italy. Fly fishing is kind of a growing segment of the market in Europe in general, but Italy is kind of one of those countries that is really interested in fly fishing, has really taken an interest in Tenkara.

1:07And Vito is one of the people responsible for helping spread the word about Tenkara there. Today, we're going to talk to him about traveling as well as fishing in Italy, and we'll see what we learn. All right, the tape is still going. I'm going to call Vito because we are on Skype and the connection dropped. Hey. Can you hear me, Daniel? Yeah, I can hear you. Actually, give me like three seconds. I want to record the crickets behind you. Hey, I love that. There's a dog barking too. Yeah. That's great. Seems it was making on purpose. Yeah, that's awesome. So Vito, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us what your connection with Tenkara is in Italy. Hi everyone, I am Vito Rubino. And the first time I met Tenkara was on the internet, in the website of Tenkara USA.

2:15because I used to fly fish, many years of fly fishing. But I was feeling I was missing something because I really like to go hiking, trekking, go in, let's say, in the middle of nowhere. And I don't like to have too much equipment with me, you know. So I was searching around. and then I found a video by Daniel Galhardo and Tenkara Usa. So I said it was, how do you say, love at first sight, you know, like, okay, it's made for me and I found my technique. So I started many years ago, some years ago, and I never quit. I mean, I'm Tenkara passionate. I use it to do everything because what I love about Tenkara, is that leave you the freedom, the freedom to enjoy nature, the freedom to know better nature, like you go hiking, you can climb, you can mountain bike, go for mushrooms and whatever and fish.

3:27So it's not just about the fish, but it's about the whole thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, and you and I, I mean, we've been communicating for a few years now and I love that we share a lot of the same philosophies in terms of Tenkara. I think, and I had the pleasure of visiting you a couple years ago now. Spent a week there with you in Italy. Why don't you tell us which areas of Italy do you fish? Where are you from and where do you fish? Because you took me to some beautiful places there. Those are very wonderful memories with you, man, because I was born in Rome, so really central Italy, the capital city full of history. And for tourism, it's gorgeous. Then I moved one hour, one hour and a half away from Rome in the regional park of the Simbrini mountain, which are up in it. And this area is beautiful because Simbrino comes from the Latin, sub imbrimus, that means under the water, because it's quite a lot of rainy valley, full of caves.

4:40A lot of hermit saints came here, you know, to build monasteries, mills. And here it's full of nature, but it's not very much exploited, you know, in a bad way because here people could live just from tourism, you know. But in a good way because it's really like 1,000 years ago. So when you're up in the mountain, you can see the natural spring, you can drink it, and you can find some really beautiful Italian marble trout. Not big sites, but, you know, they are really smart and difficult. And when you came here, we went on the Agnene River, which is a stream that is spring water coming from 2,000 meters above the sea. So quite a high mountain. And we went also in another central Italy area because we went to Marce on the Tronto River.

5:44And so we visited together some very beautiful places. So usually, like most people, you know, they think of Rome. They certainly do not think of fishing. But I flew into Rome and, you know, I drove, was it like an hour northeast of Rome for your house? And then from there, if you can help the listeners kind of situate those rivers that you just mentioned, like on a map. So like the Aniani River, like, you know, if you can tell us how far and which direction approximately. It is in the eastern of Rome. On the map, you can check Subiaco, S-U-B-I-C-O, which is a small village, but full of history. can you imagine after the invention of the print, the first book in Europe were made here in a monastery up there. So we are talking about not even 15th century.

6:46Did they write about fishing? You know, I want to make a research about it. I'm very serious because here there is an ancient library. But I cannot read Latin, unfortunately. So I have to make some research because there might be some writing about the population here and about the way they fish. Because, you know, in Italy, we had Valsesiana. But it's not only in Italy. I mean, Tenkara in Japan, Valsesiana in Italy and in all Eastern Europe, for example, they used to fish this way in Great Britain as well. So it could be a nice research. Yeah, I think so. and let's go back to the topic of geography so like i think what i like to do in this podcast is kind of help tell the you know the listener if they want to visit italy where they can kind of think about fishing especially like a lot of people might go to rome for example uh but then like you know which direction do they have to go and then we'll talk a little bit about seasons and you know and other parts of italy uh that you like fishing as well so when i visited i started off in rome you were very kind to pick me up at the airport drove me to your house and and actually i think it was almost at the same time of year so like if we stop the the conversation for a quick second we can hear the crickets behind you yeah i kind of remember the sound when i was visiting actually i'm talking in the middle of nowhere under the stars yeah that's gorgeous i can see the polar star so i i know i figure out where the north is so i can get oriented as well now it's a beautiful area so from rome from the airport we drove about an hour to an hour and a half northeast is there any fishing right by where you are i am almost under the river i mean i'm under the mountains where the streams are so from subiaco that village at old young which is one hour and half from the airport.

8:56Here it's like 15 minutes. You are under the stream, which is under the ruins of the Niro Villa. Can you imagine? I mean, it's like, it's so strange to fish here because you always find some unscent bridge, old mills and all these kinds of things, you know, so you can join tourism with fishing. But people don't know it. I mean, that's the point. Just local know it and not all the locals take care about the streams because they were born here. And so they cannot understand the big importance, you know, this stream has in the area. but Italy sometimes people see the picture of trout in Italy and the answer is oh I never thought that in Italy you could do fly fishing tenkara fishing, trout fishing or grayling fishing but we do, we do a lot Italy is full of streams and there is my area and all the central Italian area which is really good but there are also there is also the northern part of Italy so the Dolomites, the Alps and over there it's gorgeous so you can check out a region like Trentino T-R-E-N-T-I-N-O which is a region you just can tap Trentino you can see a lot of also stream area for fly fishing and tenkara Yeah, I would imagine most people think of the mountain Alps when they think of Tenkara and fishing.

10:41But if we talk about Italy as a whole, we have the central Italy, kind of like the Tuscany kind of area, which is kind of close to you. Yeah, I mean, the mountain chain in the central Italy are up in Nins. In the north, in the northern part of Italy, you have the Alps. and they are very different. They are mountain as well. So you can find mountain stream in the central Italy, in the northern Italy. But they are a bit different because in the central Italy, in the Appenins, there is more green area, plants and so on. I mean, it's more green. In the northern part, it's more high, high mountain, you know. More like rocky kind of mountains to you, right? like granite rocks and that kind of thing area you know what i mean it's like yeah and then close to you there the the first river that you mentioned and i love that river the aniene right um yeah yeah yeah it's my yeah that's your home water and we spell it a-n-i-e-n-e and by the way i'll put the uh i'll put all these resources and the names that we kind of mentioned on our website at tenkarausa.com forward slash podcast so look up for the episode on italy and there will be a list of resources and places to go and and there's also a little place where people can leave comments so there might be a discussion that starts happening there but the aniene for example i remember that they i think it was really soon before i visited they had established the no kill aniene so it's essentially a catch and release area can you tell us a little bit about that uh that river in particular yeah actually agnene is divided i mean the upper stream because agnene ends up in the in tevere which is the is a tributary of tevere which is the river that comes into rome and go to the sea the tyrannian sea but before it comes to rome and tivoli Agnene is, let's say, a trout stream.

12:55And in the valley area, so downstream, there is this new no-kill area, which was important because there were no projects to manage trouts and the environment over there. This is the first kind of project about a no-kill area. But it's going quite well. There is a lot of work, but they are doing very well. but there is another interesting part which is really close to my heart that is up in the mountains because there are no river management and that's bad but it's really wild it's like the river, the upper stream manage, I don't know how to manage itself, you know what I mean it's like it's stronger of every fishing pressure. I mean, the river is stronger, you know, and I love it from the Subiaco area where I live to the upper stream.

13:57So I'm talking about the springs. You can find really native brown trout. It's not an easy fishing because you have, it's not, let's say, a playground. Can I say that? Because there is no, how do you say, when people throw trout in the stream, the population? Yeah, like planting a trout to stock it? Yeah, okay. Okay, in the upper parts, they do not stock trout, so it's not a playground. It's very difficult, and trouts are really, really smart. I mean, I don't know how they see you. Also, if you are fishing upstream, you have to be very careful. So it's really challenging, you know? You have to think not only where to cast, which technique to use, but also how you move, you know. So it's really complete. It's very technical, you know. And the upper part, there are not big fish, even if there are many surprises, of course.

15:02But the medium size, the size is quite medium, but it's really challenging. And I love it because the nature is stunning. I mean, you feel like in a movie, in a Western movie over there, you know? Yeah, there's some beautiful areas there. I mean, I remember, too, the Aniania, like the water was so clear. It's like what most people would think of a spring creek, you know, over here. There was a, you could see some weed beds, but you could see through the water. And there was actually a good population of fish. They were by far tough to fish. They were tough to catch, but there was a lot of fish in there. So I really enjoyed that. You know, so that was a great area. and let's talk a little bit about the you know we'll talk a little bit about this other area that you and i visited and then i want to talk a little bit about the trout that we found in different places but at one point towards the end of my trip we took a drive it was probably maybe two or three hours a little southeast i think it was no i mean you are saying two or three hours because i was boring in the car but it's not one hour it was just one hour and a half more or less then if you stop for an espresso yes that's what it was i remember it and it's uh you know it's amazing like you know and don't get me wrong and i absolutely loved it like i always drank espresso but uh i think that trip like got me into becoming like an absolutely espresso aficionado i got home and i had to buy a machine and everything because you know there when i was with you guys i saw it on facebook and i feel so responsible you totally are but it was great i mean don't get me wrong because you know we would wake up and we'd go meet people in a cafe and of course you have an espresso uh and then you drive an hour and you take a break for an espresso and you drive another hour and a break for espresso again it's uh it's absolutely great so that's a great part of uh italian culture i mean we definitely took our time although i never felt like i needed to fish more i mean i always felt like i fished plenty of time and so it was not getting in the way of my fishing which is good because once you remember on that journey yeah when we were in the car you said you know that kind of landscapes reminds me of village in japan i still remember the sentence of yours yes there was a yeah there's some similarities i think um you know i think just on some of the what we'll call the old world right where you know villages have been established for like a long time but also the similarity was that like a lot of times in japan and actually i'll probably venture to say that japan and italy are probably about same size i mean they're i don't know i don't know exactly but um to me it seems like they're about the same size and even the the the layout of the country where it's kind of a skinny kind of long country and yeah yeah like peninsula you know exactly so you know and then japan and italy have a lot of mountains and then you end up with these uh valleys that are kind of narrow uh so you you know like the the villages that get established they're you know like smaller kind of buildings um along the sides of rivers in the space that they have available to them so yeah it definitely reminded me of japan a little bit that's really interesting yeah yeah yeah yeah so that area what was the name of that area that area is uh molise molise m-o-m-o-l-i-s-e you know italy is divided in region you know and molise is that very very small region just northeast from Rome, let's say, but we can show it on the map.

18:53And that is our, we used to call it our New Zealand, because it's plenty of trouts, plenty of native trouts, and also big trouts. I mean, I'm talking about, sorry, I say it in centimeters, you know. I'll try to converge. but okay let's say uh also uh to 20 feet you know 60 centimeters i mean very huge native trout over there and the river we visit is called volturno v-o-l-t-u-r-n-o volturno which is a really Ancent River and very big, but in the upper part it's something amazing because it's a true river. You can find very smart and naveted trouts and also big trouts. It's interesting because while in my area, in Agnene River, it's more interesting for, for example, all the Tenkara Plus projects, you know what I mean? It's like here you can climb, you can trekking, visit places.

20:02Over there on Vortuno River, it's more about fishing. It's more about fishing. It's more about exploring the river because it's very long. The upper part is very different from the lower part. and it's challenging it's challenging because the upper part is like to fish in a mountain area a mountain stream with very smart trout and also big trout but the let's say in downstream you can find a very very wide blade so it's very wide river and you can try the long line so there is always something to learn and to improve you know on that river because it's difficult that you have to understand the season uh the period of the day and it's a river that has to be red you know what i mean yeah so those yeah the streams are definitely like you know i wouldn't say they're easy but uh definitely a lot of fish you know like that's what uh i suppose those trout have been caught for a few hundred years so they've developed some good instincts but you know in on the Volturno River, I had my, I think I got at least what we'd call a trifecta or a grand slam.

21:24You know, I believe I caught rainbows and what you guys called zebra trout and then the marble trout, right? No, no, no. Marble trout are just in the Alps. But there is a Mediterranean trout. That's what I'm thinking about. Okay, Mediterranean brown is like zebra trout, you know, because then we can also show some pictures. For you, it's a bit strange because it's really like black, and you coat it, you know, like black strips on the livery. So let's talk a little bit about the trout that you can find around Italy. Can you talk us through the types of trout, the zebra and the brown trout, the Mediterranean brown and the marble? Let's talk about that a little bit. Okay. In Italy, you can find many kinds of browns. Of course, during the years, a lot of native trout has changed a bit with the stock of trout, you know, that they put in the river just to reinforce the population.

22:36so we have different families of trouts but native native italian trouts can be the mediterranean trout which is that kind of zebra trout actually just uh just to clarify to the zebra trout i thought that was a little bit different it i believe the i thought the zebra trout reminded me a little bit of a rainbow but it had this kind of squiggly marks on the body are those the same or is that a different trout? No, it's different. It's another kind of trout. Then we have, of course, rainbows and very huge rainbows in the central part and in some no-kill area. Then we also have the marble trout you mentioned before. The marble trout is a really ancient Italian trout. You can find it also in Slovenia. So in other countries close to Italy. And it's huge. It's huge. It can live a very long time and it can reach one meter.

23:39Wow, one meter. That's what? We're looking at three feet almost. That's insane. Yeah, it's very huge. But also the brown trout here. If you go in central Italy on the Sangro River, which is S-A-M-G-R-O River, which is close to Molise but what's in Volturno you can find that sites of trouts of course it's not easy because as we were saying before the reason they lived so long is that they were always martyr they are all the anglers you know what I mean they managed to survive to the anglers to the birds and to all the trouble of their life I would imagine the one meter trout that's got to be very very rare have you ever caught one of those the one meter marble trout of course i did i mean you're a fisherman no i don't remember but maybe if i could one meter trout maybe i would remember it no no never caught the the biggest i caught i think is about two feet wow almost two feet no kidding yeah but yeah but i'm an anger so yeah i've got to take that with a pinch of salt huh okay yeah the pinch of salt yeah so okay so we got uh you know we got the rainbow trout which i'm assuming have been introduced from somewhere else uh yeah and then we have the marble trout which are native to italy especially in the northern italy yeah and then we have the zebra trout uh what is the zebra trout It's Mediterranean brown trout.

25:28Oh, okay, okay. But with that kind of marks, with more accent, I mean with more contrast. So we call it zebra trout, but it's the same of Mediterranean trout. Then we have the Atlantic trout. Atlantic trout was used to stock fish in the rivers many, many years ago. and it is a hybrid with our brown trout, you know. So it's more Atlantic brown trout. But we have a trout that is solely in Italy, which is called macrostigma. And I will write it down so people can read it, macrostigma trout, which is a really unscent Italian trout. We have it in the central Italy, so also in my region and there should be quite a few in Sardinia but just a few very small which is really a historical Italian trout and now there are many projects to protect it but you can still fish it of course with catch and release in the central area, actually not very If I'm far from Rome, it's like also one hour and you are there in that other river.

26:54What does the micro stigma look like? Does it look like a brown or a rainbow or is it completely different? It looks like a brown, but it's not colored like mountain trout. It's like silver with just a black spot. Oh, okay. Just black spot. Is that one that I might have caught in the Volturno River? No, they don't have those there. No, they don't have those there. But you caught also some trows which come from an Italian fishery, which is called the Puccini, like the songwriter, you know, like the opera writer. And it's with very huge marks that are red or orange. Okay. Perfect. So like, if you don't mind too, like I'll put some of the images of the trout that people can find on the, you know, tenkarausa.com forward slash podcast. If you can send me some photos, that would be great.

27:57Yeah, because it's, it's better. You can understand better, you know, by watching a picture. Yes, of course I will. Cool. Thank you. Now, what is the, what do you think is the best time to fish in Italy? okay let's say from october to march fishing is uh almost in all italy is forbidden for trouts because it's the spawn uh period right okay because yeah they are spawning so from october to march uh trouts uh and fishing in the upper streams is forbidden is it like october 1st through March 1st or do you know approximately the dates when the trout season is closed? Almost from the last Sunday of March to the first Sunday of October. That's when it's open. That's when the season is open. You can fish from the last week, from the last Sunday of March to the first Sunday of October.

29:00You can fish. so the best period to me it's august or september also june it's okay it depends on the area because it's if it's a mountain area august could be okay or else it's too hot because in italy it's central italy is very hot you know so september would be better but from june to september fishing is really good also may also may according to the according to the read to the stream to the insects and all these kind of things you know temperature generally um at the beginning of the season which is march it's a bit difficult because there is a lot of uh water rain run off so yeah So the droughts are smart. They are, let's say, into the rocks. They are afraid of their life, you know what I mean? Like fruits and all these kind of things. They don't feed too much.

30:01But from June, it's okay. Then it depends because if you go to fish in the northern part of Italy, so to the Indian Alps, in the summer you can find snow water. I see. Yeah, because all the snow becomes too melt. It becomes meltdown, the runoff, let's say. So it's better in September, October. Then in northern Italy, after October, let's say November, you can go for gralings. And it's really nice. Yeah, because they have different period of spawns, you know. so november here in italy especially in the northern part of italy is the month of uh grayling you know so you can catch grayling in november even though it might be cold up in the mountains it'll still be uh fishable yeah yeah also in the in the alps so we talked about the trout where can you find grayling throughout italy is it just in the northern part in the alps So yes, Graylings you can find it in Italy In some area in the central region Like Molise as well But the land of the Graylings Is in the northern part of Italy So in the region called Piemonte Beneto and Trentino so in the alps let's say under the alps perfect so now let's talk a little bit about you know the logistics of fishing uh so you know a lot of yeah i've known i know a lot of people that went to italy last year either for business trips or because they wanted to go on a vacation and then of course they want to pack a tenkara rod because it fits in a carry-on suitcase and even though they're supposed to be just enjoying the food once in a while they want to try to cast the fly so let's talk about the logistics starting with the fishing licenses how is there like a national fishing license how does somebody fish legally in italy because nobody wants of course to you know get in there and just cast a line there is a fishing license that you need right yeah yeah yeah it's a bit difficult to get the information because this is the institutional part and a lot of times you don't find info in english and that's bad but in italy we have a national license but which is for Italian and for foreigners you know it's different okay in Italy we have the national license for foreigners then we have the local permit depends on the area you are fishing because it's a bit tricky you know because depending from the region you might need a small book where to sign and to write down the day of fishing.

33:07So all the part is fishing. So you have to earn a national fishing license and then a regional license. Okay, so you always have to have a national fishing license regardless of where you go. And in some places you have to get an additional permit, right? Yes, yes. For foreigners, it's easier because you can pay. And with the receipt, you are allowed to fish in all the national area for three months generally. So you have a three-month national fishing permit. But then you have to check the area because in some region you need a regional permit. than the permit of that local area. It's a bit tricky. So the best suggestion I can give is to write to someone which knows the area to check what you need to fish there because it's a bit tricky.

34:13In Italy, all the regions are almost independent. I mean, they write their laws and they manage their areas, also the streams, the way they feel. you know it's there aren't a lot of information about it so one way to connect with anglers you know from italy too is just go to tenkara anglers page on facebook and that's a very active forum and there's a lot of italian participants in there that do speak english and they can help provide some guidance and sometimes you can connect with people to fish with them if you go to italy and now yeah so the fishing license just like in japan it's a little complicated but it's doable but once somebody gets in italy you know and the i found that you can get around in english although you know not everybody does speak english but um they try hard yes they do and it's a lovely people i mean people really do try very hard but uh why don't we uh share a few words or a few terms in italian that people have to know so how would you ask for a fishing license when you get to italy and you're like i want to buy a fishing license how would you say that so i can tell you the entire sentence that could be which is like which kind of documents do i need to fish but uh is there like a so like usually like of course when i travel to countries i don't speak the language i might just say you know fishing license with a question mark you know fishing license how uh can somebody say that in italy and try to find a place to buy it if you say fishing license in italy like this they can get you or or like a crazy guy or they bring you well maybe in a sporting goods store in a fishing store or in a fishing store yeah that's yeah i mean uh licenza di pesca licenza licenza di pesca yeah don't go to a don't go to a cafe and ask for a licenza di pesca because they're there to serve espresso as we all know yes but it's uh as you said before no jokes apart it's easier when you reach the place it's easier you know if you are in italy the important thing is to know like what to pay and where but if you write on tenkara anglers is full of Italian tencariangles from all over Italy, you know?

36:45So for sure, someone will get you back with or help you with documents. Actually, it's quite easy because it's enough to pay a small amount of money and it's cheaper, for example, than UK or USA. It's very cheap. How much does a fishing license cost approximately? I know there's going to be different areas that charge different prices, but do you know what the fishing license is going for? Yeah, I mean, the price should be around for three months, from 20 to 30 euros, which is like from 30 to 40 dollars, maybe. Yeah, that's not too bad. Yeah, and that's for three months. So it's, and if you're going to go fishing and you want to fish, be able to fish for about a week, you pretty much want to buy a three-month license. Is that how it works? Oh, yeah, yeah. and in a lot of area like my area you don't need any other permit you know so you just pay this and you go fishing when it's when it's the opening period no problem I mean with just this then you have to check if you are fishing in which area and how to get that area permit but for that you just write on Tenkara Anglers and all the people will write you the possible solution all the anglers so no problem and you know in my experience of course i loved fishing with in italy but uh would you say that italy is a really good country and has good streams for tenkara fishing yes yes definitely i mean it's uh sometimes i think that it's not um a coincidence that valseciana and tenkara are very similar and they were developed without knowing each other you know what i mean yeah because mountain streams in italy are perfect are perfect for uh fishing with a fly without real without long lines and so on you know just you keep the road and and you fish and italy is full of small stream that for too many years were forgotten you know and also thanks to to tenkara we are rediscovering these small streams you know close to our places because we have a lot of natures and tenkara is perfect for that yeah so the pesca vases yeah i think it's absolutely amazing although it's not surprising that there's a lot of different actually different countries and different cultures that develop methods of fishing using a fly with a rod and a line tied to the end that look exactly like tenkara And in Italy, of course, you had Pesca la Valziziana, if I'm pronouncing that correctly.

39:34Yeah, of course. Was that okay? The Pesca la Valziziana? Yeah, it was. Bravo. Bravo. Grazie. So how would you describe Valziziana? Like, is it identical to Tenkara? Or, you know, nowadays, of course, people are using Tenkara rods, but are there any differences? yeah there is a big argument you know about it because um some people but just some people when they see tenkara they say okay it's fixed line fly fishing it's valseziana just to to to cut the corner you know what i mean but they are very very different because the the Varsetiana got stuck to the old tradition. So you can find a wooden rod, which is made from nice cane, it's called. It's like a river cane. And horse lion and tree flies, which are similar to Kebari, because they are, let's say, spiders.

40:39You know what I mean? It's like very light spiders. but the technique also for casting is really different because it's much heavier the line is heavier so you have to it's it's the movement like you are whipping you know like big round in the skin the sky and so it's really different tenkara is much more uh light yeah so that's what i kind of notice i mean valziziana you know the if you're talking about traditional valziziana using like the longer or not longer but heavier wooden kind of rods a lot of times or bamboo sometimes horse airlines and then because you're using three flies typically you're doing this kind of a belgian cast almost um so that the lines the flies don't get tangled and then then cut it's a little bit more of a precise like up and down kind of cast a lot of times but in essence it's a rod lining fly and in valziziana very often three or more flies even right yeah exactly exactly Tenkara is faster.

41:40The stops in casting are really short. And it's really another way of fishing. And you can realize it when you have the rod in the hand. You can see how different it is. I mean, casting is really another technique. Also for the flies, three flies and one flies, it changes a lot. Also the philosophy is different. A little bit, yeah. And it's been really interesting to see a revival of interest in Valisiana in Italy since we started Tenkara USA. Because before, as you mentioned, it was almost a disappearing kind of art form. And now people are like, hey, we have something similar that our ancestors used to do. Let's take a look at this. And as a result, Italy is one of our biggest markets because people understand the concept of using just a rod line and fly to catch a fish. Yeah, because they can rediscover what we lost.

42:43So it's like we can use our tradition and what we always enjoyed, but with modern gear, you know what I mean? It's like more lighter, simpler. It's nice. And I think the big power of Tenkara is to rediscover and make people proud of their ancient tradition. It's not only in Italy, also in Eastern Europe, you know. Like, we know about the Macedonian flies, you know, like in the 14th century. So, I mean, people are rediscovering this kind of traditional fishing thanks to Tenkara. and tenkara is a big power you know like we can do a museum just not to lose our traditions and that's thanks to the tenkara market that's awesome yeah it makes me really good to hear about that i do have some italian blood on my in my blood and uh you know since i actually i last time i counted i've got eight or nine different ethnicities in my blood but i think about one an eighth of it is Italian, which absolutely, you know, I don't think it's hard to fall in love with the food over there, but the espresso, but I can't wait to go back for sure.

44:06It's a great country. There are a lot of things you have still to eat and to drink, and some fish, sprouts, to catch. So let me ask you very quickly, for somebody who is going to Italy, of course espresso is part of the routine. We don't have to even, and you can just go to a place and just, actually, you don't say espresso when you go to a cafe, you just say cafe, huh? Yeah, we just ask for a cafe. You just enter in a bar, ask for a cafe, and they'll give you. Then we have a lot of kind of cafe, because we used to say cafe macchiato, cafe ristretto, cafe lungo. So for us, it's not just espresso, but a long, short, with a bit of milk, with a bit of milk cold, with a bit of milk hot. I mean, it's like, yeah, to be a bartender is crazy here. Yeah, all the espresso varieties, it's great. Which one is your favorite one? Do you just ask for a cafe or what do you ask for?

45:06Yeah, I mean, I'm quite flexible. I just ask for a cafe because to wake up, I really need it. So I cut the corner and ask for a coffee. Yeah, my favorite thing is macchiato. I like a little bit of that kind of froth milk on it, a little bit of the foam part of the milk. But espresso is great too. Yeah, it's lovely to hear you ask for a macchiato. And for anybody else visiting, what else should they be ordering when they go to a cafe or a restaurant? What are your top three must-eat foods? That's really challenging. We talk about Italian beverage and food. And what can I say? In Italy, we have a lot of traditional food, depending on the area you are staying. So my best suggestion is to enter in a typical restaurant of that area and ask for the receipt of that area.

46:13Okay. Because the area has a kind of pasta, for example. For us, pasta can be just normal pasta made with egg, you know, that kind of egg pasta, like tagliatelle. So in very simple terms, like if you can share, like if somebody walks into a restaurant not speaking a word of Italian, can they say like, you know, the traditional food, please? Can they say that in Italian and get the best dish of the restaurant? Yes, I mean, in the restaurants, also in the small villages, people and the waiters understand English, more or less. So no problem with the menu to order a traditional. So no problem for this. But I can say my area, the area of Rome, you have to order carbonara, amatriciana. Those are the two typical Roman dishes made of pasta. kind of bacon which is not really bacon egg i mean it's you have to try it yeah the food is great i mean nobody can go wrong it's of course you have many kind of pizza too many actually and they are different if you go to the south for example naples they make it more thicker and in roman era it's like lighter but i mean pizza pasta wines whatever you eat here it's okay it's so well there and i think this is the right now we're in our mushroom hunting season here we're finding a lot of the porcini or the bolits as we call them yeah and there's a lot of good ones there too huh for for example tagliatelle and funghi porcini tagliatelle is a kind of long pasta made with porcini with that kind of mushroom and those are amazing really warm i'm i'm getting hungry oh man my mouth is watering we should stop talking about food but i think we kind of gave people enough about you know when to go a couple of regions to check out the kind of trout that they're going to catch in there and then of course our conversation had to divert into food because we're talking about italy but uh you know hopefully where can people find you if they want to connect with you i mean besides the tenkara anglers which is a good forum on facebook and of course we have our forum on tenkara USA and we're going to have that page the tenkarausa.com forward slash podcast where there's going to be more information and probably people can connect in there um and of course i should mention that you are the uh the only guide in italy that is part of our tenkara guide network right now so if somebody goes to tenkarausa.com forward slash tenkara-guides they'll find your picture in there so they can connect you with you in a lot of different ways but is there like any other way to uh for people to connect with you uh you know you probably don't want to give your email because then you get all your a lot of people asking you directly how to do it but you're welcome to if you want to oh of course you i can leave you we can write down my email and you can find me in in facebook also with my page Zurichichi Tenkara, which will write it down.

49:31Yeah. And directly on my email. And I will be pleased to answer all the questions. And can I say something about fishing in Italy? Yeah. Because I deeply believe it. I mean, here it's a place, I understand that, that you don't, here it's a place where you don't come just for fishing, you know? I mean, from the United States or other countries, you can go to New Zealand, for example, just for fishing, right? Here you can, for a whole experience, you know, made by Tenkara fishing, all the trouts, all the history, food, place to see, people to meet. So it's a bigger experience. It's not just fishing, you know? So it's perfect also for Tenkara Plus. yeah in carapace italy would be the the perfect experience you know what i mean i completely agree i mean i i think anybody you know looking going to italy really has to be very open to soaking in the the people you know like just it's such a friendly country um and i you know just a culture experience um you know with everybody that i met there but then you know everything else about italy not just the fishing for sure yeah that's a great point yes i mean i deeply believe so because it's it's an experience you know and in italy you can do it you can find yourself fishing under unscent Roman settlement for example or really i mean deep in the history oh it was incredible yeah fishing like you know with like these old ancient bridges and especially like you One of my favorite experiences, too, I think, was one day when we started fishing, of course, we had a couple of espressos, and then we took a break, and we went out for lunch, and then we came back.

51:23But then we stayed until it kind of started getting dark, and we were in the middle of this village, Ascoli, I think it was, and we're really close to this bridge. And there's all these stone buildings and a few lights here, and they're coming up, and it was absolutely magical just to be there. and that made me feel so much like i was in italy and i was in this old country and the fishing was great too i mean there was like we caught a few trout with all this twilight of the the ancient buildings there was absolutely magnificent i totally loved it i'm so proud to hear hear that you know i'm very proud of that i mean it's i'm happy well so uh yeah let's uh let's uh cut off our conversation by telling people how do you how would you say hello and how do you say bye because that's always going to be a fun one ok ciao a tutti e vi aspetto in Italia well I'll wait I look forward to being there in Italy too man you're Italian actually thank you very much for listening to the Tenkara Cast I'd like to extend a special thank you to Nick Ogawa also known as Takenobu check out his music at takenobumusic.com.

52:41We'll be posting links to any references we made in this podcast, such as Takenobu's music, on our website, www.tenkarausa.com forward slash podcast. And until next time on the Tenkara Cast.