Destinations: Idaho with Chris Hunt

0:00This is Daniel Galhardo and you're listening to the Tenkara Cast, the podcast about the simple Japanese method of fly-fishing, Tenkara. In the Tenkara Cast, I'll be sharing information with you on techniques, history, gear and philosophies, as well as Tenkara stories from anglers all over the world. This podcast is brought to you by Tenkara USA, introducing Tenkara outside of Japan since 2009. It is only possible we create content such as this podcast and all the videos that we create because of your support. So we thank you so very much for purchasing Tenkara USA rods, lines, and flies. I hope you enjoy learning more about the simple Japanese method of fly fishing, Tenkara. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Tenkara Cast. Today I'm very honored to be speaking to an old friend, Chris Hunt. We haven't talked in quite a while, but I reached out to him to try to learn a little bit more about the Tenkara fishing opportunities in Idaho.

1:03And Chris is also with Trout Unlimited. So he's in the communications department of Trout Unlimited doing the social media. But he's also the author of, what is it called, Chris? Secret Waters of Idaho? Yeah, I've got a couple out that have come out in the last few years. One is the Fly Fishing Idaho Secret Waters. And then I just last year had a book published on kind of a species specific guide to fly fishing in Yellowstone, which is just up the road for me. Somehow I missed that. I'll make sure to put those on our podcast page at Tenkara Osea.com forward slash podcast. I'll make sure to link up to both of your books. But Chris has also been Tenkara fishing for quite some time. So he's got this experience and some of my, some of the like cutting edge tenkara fishing early on where he caught pike and salmon. So let's talk a little bit about that. And now we get into Idaho. How, how long has it been since you first used a tenkara rod, Chris? Oh my gosh, I bet it's been over 10 years.

2:06In fact, I would, I would imagine it's been closer to 12 or 15 years when I first started doing it. And I, you know, a lot of it, Daniel, was thanks to you and Tenkara USA kind of pushing me into the discipline. And I actually, I really love Tenkara fishing. There are instances where I honestly believe it is more effective than traditional angling and even traditional fly fishing in some instances. but what I really found that interested me most about Tenkara fly fishing was being able to introduce my kids to the outdoors and to the rivers and streams here in eastern Idaho because the Tenkara rod was so much easier for them to pick up and kind of become adept with it. And, you know, my daughter, for instance, she really started fly fishing with a Tenkara rod and kind of moved over to traditional fly fishing, but has since probably done more Tenkara than traditional fly fishing.

3:22And she actually lives and works over in Grand Teton National Park about two hours from here. And she fishes the park with a Tenkara rod all the time. so yeah um so how so you introduced your kids to to fly fishing through tenkara at some point ago but she's now working so i'm assuming she's an adult woman uh she is yeah she's all grown up and out of the house and my my son is actually over there in teton park with her as well for his first year working over there and he's got his tenkara around with him nice that's great so when did you get your kids hooked into Tenkara? How old were they? Shortly after I started, I mean, I started and then, I don't know, I was a bit younger back then. You know, I'm 51 now. I was probably in my late 30s. And I started using Tenkara and then I started trying to figure out, okay, what can I do with a Tenkara rod that nobody else is doing? And I don't know if I was one of the first or the first but I did catch and land a northern pike on Tenkara off a boat in Lake Athabasca in Saskatchewan and then on that same trip there's a unique run of lake trout that actually runs up some of the rivers and streams that flow into the lake and I caught an eight pound lake trout on Tenkara much to the surprise of the guide who was there he kept telling trying to tell me that I was fishing for a whitefish and I'm like this is not a whitefish but it was fun and it was exciting and it was kind of pushing some of those earlier Tenkara USA rods to their limit.

5:01The guy I was fishing with eventually hooked a really big pike, probably 36 inches, and it just pulled the Lilian off the end of the rod and it pulled it so tight that we couldn't get it to fold back down. And then we just kind of put him down and said, okay, I think we've figured out where the limit is with pike. But we really had a great time kind of. And of course, I fished on that same trip. I fished and caught a lot of grayling on that trip. And then over the years, of course, here in Idaho, we have native cutthroats. We have brookies, browns, rainbows, whitefish. You name it, we've got it. I've caught a couple smallmouth bass in the Snake River off of Tenkara. I've yet to land my first Tenkara carp. I hear it can be done, but the carp I've been fishing for here in Idaho are, you know, between 10 and 25 pounds. So I'm not sure. Oh, those are hard. Especially on foot, you know, so we'll see.

6:07I think that'd be hard. I have got some carp, you know, much smaller than that. But I did have an experience where one time I decided to take a stand-up paddleboard to a lake. and I threw a fly in front of, or, you know, by a carp and I started pulling the fly back. And for a microsecond, I hooked the carp on the tail. And I just had this vision of like, just going into the water so hard. And my heart, my heart jumped and I had this vision of just kind of being dragged. But luckily the hook came right off, which was, yeah, I can't imagine what would have happened. That might've been like a good 15 pound carp. It would have been a hard one. But maybe that's the trick. Maybe take a watercraft of some sort and get dragged around for a bit. Well, I think that would be you'd have to be on a boat or you'd have to be able to be mobile. Because even if, you know, you can follow, you know, the old Craig Matthews method, which is just drop the rod in the water and then run down the stream where it pops back up, you can pick it up again.

7:08But with carp in a lake, who knows? You know, it's like jaws pulling under that big yellow barrel. And maybe it comes up again. maybe it doesn't you never know oh totally yeah no i and that's one technique i uh i always i haven't done that you know since i started in kind of but i i always tell people somebody's trying to sell you more than kind of rods because it's oh yeah i don't think that should really be done it's yeah you know there's a good chance you might lose the rod especially in a big lake well i think that you know the applications for tenkara are are varied in many but for really what Tenkara was initially made for all those centuries ago in Japan, today it still meets those requirements. And like I said earlier, I think that it can be as or more effective than any other kind of angling, particularly if you're in smallish water and you're able to control the line much easier.

8:16I love the fact that with Tenkara, you can have nothing on the water except the fly. I absolutely love that. And I noticed, too, fishing. And you know Tom Sadler in Virginia, Daniel. Oh, yeah. Tom and I, one year, this was years ago, I guess it was probably 10 or 12 years ago, we fished the Rapidan. And I realized then and there that Tenkara not only gave me the flexibility that I liked on small water like that, but it gave me longer drifts because I could, with just switching the rod over to my left hand, suddenly I was ambidextrous. And I love that. So, like I said, I just think in the instances where it was designed to work well, it really does work well. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that's kind of, you know, it's always been my focus. And that's also part of the reason I wanted to talk to you about Idaho, because there's so many good mountain stream, you know, fishing. And, you know, that's kind of where Tenkara originated.

9:18That's kind of what it's designed for. A lot of our customers play with all kinds of fish, but I think most of them are focused on those mountain streams. And if anybody's also making a trip to Idaho, they're going to be probably focused on those beautiful mountain streams along the Sawtooth Forest or, you know, the Teton area. So there's like so much good variety of those kinds of waters. Yeah, we're very lucky up here to have lots of public land and lots of places to put a Tenkara rod to good use. And, you know, considering the times, it's also a great place to go to kind of get away from other people. and you can put your social distancing and responsible recreation practices to work, fishing with Tenkara on these remote mountain streams where we have plenty of them. Yeah, so before we get into the lay of the land in Idaho and where people can go and the characteristics of the waters, I wanted to ask you, since we are in the middle of this pandemic, the COVID, how is the vibe over there?

10:21Like, are people kind of, do they feel like tourists can come by and fly fish there? Do they want them to wait? I mean, it's kind of this, we're in this weird limbo right now in the States where it depends on the area and people are starting to travel more, but I'm not so sure it's appropriate. I wonder what your thoughts are on that. It's a really good question. And I mean, it's, the answer is going to be somewhat nuanced. So bear with me. Idaho is in the reopening. It's in phase four of reopening. Our governor had a four-phase reopening plan once we all endured the stay-at-home order. And we are, like a lot of places, seeing an uptick in COVID cases because, honestly, I just think people were so exhausted of being stuck inside and not being able to be social that when those first two or three phases came up, they got a little cavalier. So, you know, and it's interesting you say that because at TU, Trout Unlimited, where I work as the digital editorial director, we've been engaged in this hashtag responsible recreation campaign. I'm not sure if you've seen that or heard of it, but, you know, we're saying that it's okay to go fishing regardless of where you live. If you just adhere to a few simple rules like, you know, maybe travel to the river by yourself rather than with someone you're not quarantining with, wear a face covering when you're fishing within a rod's length of someone else, and especially wear a face cover if you're on a boat with someone.

12:02And then also, you know, cleanliness is important. But one of the things that we recommend, at least for the time being, is to try to fish close to home. Idaho is, for a lot of people, It's a destination place. But I'll say this. It's probably wise if you don't live within a couple of hours of some great Idaho fishing destination that you try and wait it out. Maybe wait until next summer or later in the fall. Just because if you or someone you're with, you know, might be an asymptomatic COVID carrier, and you end up in a place like Riggins, Idaho, or Driggs, Idaho, or, you know, some smaller community that really doesn't have the medical infrastructure, the healthcare infrastructure to handle an outbreak, it could really cause a problem. So, you know, the advice stands, you know, try and fish close to home, but, you know, hopefully we can archive this discussion and it will be much more appropriate for when the country is kind of fully open to travel.

13:13And that could be later this summer or it could be, you know, next year. Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm glad we touched on that. And, you know, like the last few podcast episodes that I've done, I've been trying to focus, you know, like let's explore waters close to home. You know, there is so much good waters. And yes, Idaho is a good destination of fly fishing. But yeah, in general, also like avoiding those, you know, multi-day trips to anywhere outside for those very reasons so yeah thanks for sharing the information and yeah hopefully down the line you know we can uh people people can be like what what is covid you know although i don't think we're gonna forget it yeah i mean i'd love i'd love to forget all about it but it has been such a part of our lives now for what four or five months and And, you know, Idaho does not have a giant number of cases. We're starting to test more. And that, of course, is revealing the truth about COVID is that it's probably more insidious than we ever suspected. And I'm glad we're testing more.

14:15I want to know more about how this disease is affecting my community. but it also gives folks like you or folks like your listeners who might want to come and visit an idea of what they're up against should they come and and and you know come and go fishing but i'll say this i've been within a couple of hours of home several times fishing but it's always either been by myself or with someone that i am you know social or self-isolating with so that I'm not putting anyone else at risk. But there is quite a bit of anxiety. I have a little camper that I take with me, and I had to go to the RV dump Sunday, and I had to wait in line because there were so many people out RV camping. That's already a sketchy process. You're dealing with raw sewage, and you're dealing with things like that.

15:15And then you have to worry about this coronavirus thing. So the anxiety level in these smaller communities, I think, is still pretty high. Folks don't want to see that stuff come to their town if they don't have it yet or if they just have a few numbers of them. So the simple answer is stay as close to home as you can. And when you're out there fishing, fish right. You know, fish within a rod's length of someone you're not social isolating or self-isolating with. And if you're on a boat or a guided trip and man, I know that guides have really had it tough on this during this pandemic. But every guide out there should be wearing a face covering and associate their clients for the entirety of the process. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Thanks for sharing those thoughts and, you know, responsible angling. and uh yeah a good thing that the fly fishing community is very used to using those neck and face coverings hopefully that stays in place throughout the summer yeah right i mean most of us would wear a buff or a gator or something anyway just protect ourselves from the sun and now you're kind of getting a two for one out of those face coverings so that's good exactly so let's get into the you know the lay of the land for idaho you know because it's a diverse state There's a lot of different waters.

16:40You know, I personally love the mountains of Idaho, and I was a little bit bummed because I was actually planning a little bit of a road trip, you know, in the beginning of the summer where I wanted to kind of hit some of the mountain regions, like starting the Teton, which I fished in the past before with Tenkara, but not enough. And then I, you know, I was really interested in doing some backpacking, like along the Sawtooth and White Cloud kind of mountain range over there. So there's, you know, so much cool stuff going on in the state. Why don't you tell us, maybe, can you give us a breakdown of, like, how Idaho, you know, like, where you can find different types of waters and what are the, you know, the attractive waters that people go there for, like, you know, north, south, east, west? Sure. How would you describe the state? Yeah, that would be great. You could probably divide Idaho into four separate regions. You'd start with the, you know, North Idaho, Panhandle region. Then maybe you'd come down to Central Idaho, which is where you have your, you know, your Salmon River Country, River of No Return, Wilderness, Sawtooth Country.

17:48um then i would say you got kind of southwest idaho which is like from say mccall south you know through boise payette river country south fork of the boise river country boise river itself um several uh good trophy trout streams but also the snake river which in that corner of idaho is really good for smallmouth bass and carp if you want to put your tincar rod to the test and then southeast idaho which is kind of where i live i live in idaho falls i'm about about two hours from yellowstone national park two hours from grand teton national park and from the west side of town on a clear day you can barely see the top of the grand teton so that's the wyoming essentially the wyoming border um and then farther southeast in idaho we have great fishing and rivers like the blackfoot the portniff and the bear and there's lots of small backcountry streams that um that migrate in or not migrate but connect to those bigger rivers and fish from those bigger rivers migrate up those smaller streams so those that part like that you know maybe we can start close to your home i guess you know where you're so when you're in idaho falls where do you tend to go fishing i mean is there like a particular direction that you can choose more often than not well um i'm really lucky i'm about 45 minutes away from the south fork of the snake river which is a trophy trout fishery i'm the same distance away from the Henry's Fork, which is hallowed ground for trout anglers. And both of those rivers are totally doable with Tenkara. But for the sake of, you know, finding some of those out of the way smaller streams, there are lots of little streams that flow into both rivers that are particularly good. I'll give you a couple of examples just to, you know, kind of tease you a little bit. But there's a little creek up in Island Park, which runs into the Henry's Fork, which is one of my favorite places to fish.

19:59And it's not a huge secret, but it's called Moose Creek. And Moose Creek is full of wild brook trout and wild rainbows. It also, in the fall, gets to run a kokanee salmon that come up out of Island Park Reservoir. They run up the Henry's Fork, and then they actually spawn in Moose Creek. And it's a beautiful little trout stream. Kind of idyllic. flows through a lodgepole pine forest meadow, chances are you'll see, you know, moose and grouse, a good chance of seeing bears, both grizzly and black bears, so I would recommend bear spray. That's a good one kind of in the northern reaches of where I fish. And then to the immediate east of me. We have great fishing in all the tributaries that run into the South Fork of the Snake. The nice thing about those fisheries is that a partnership with Fish and Game, Trout Unlimited, and others, we've set up these weirs that prevent rainbows that have found their way into the South Fork of the Snake from migrating up into those native cutthroat streams.

21:12So you're seeing big river cutthroats that are post-spawn by the time the streams open. And they're, you know, 15 to 20 inches long in some instances. So it's a great place to go to catch bigger fish in smaller water, which is every Tenkara angler's dream. And then to the south of me, we have the, well, I should mention the Teton River and its tributary. is a little bit northeast of me and it's a great fishery too it's a access is a little tougher to the river itself but there are a couple of tributaries that are definitely worth hitting i was curious about the teton like how because i you know i spent a little bit of time on the national park you know front and i didn't get a chance to really go in deep or fish the teton river itself but how is the tenkara fishing along the teton uh since we're the of the of the three big rivers where i live the teton the south fork and the henry's work the teton would probably be the easiest to fish tenkara it's not as big um it's it's uh very simple to read you know you're essentially casting to banks um some ripples but the teton is a is a pretty straight shot river that flows into the Henry's Fork.

22:37So I would, you know, the Teton is definitely worth a shot. Like I said, access is tough. If you have a guide or a boat of your own or even just a one-man or one person, like a cat raft or a pontoon boat, totally doable. Totally doable. and you know one thing like when you just mentioned like some brook trout and also the the rainbow um let's talk a little bit about the fish and actually it just came back to me that uh i don't know if you're still running it but you at least used to have a blog called eat more brook trout uh so let's talk a little bit about the native trout in uh in idaho or maybe at least in this you know the eastern part of it and what's the relationship with the more brook trout thing that you yeah good question that or it's it's still around I mean it's I've I've removed the url and I essentially when I blog now I blog for Toronto limited I do some freelance writing for some magazines and things like that but for the most part I blog for for TU so I kind of let the the old school block it's hard to hard to imagine that blocking is now old school but I've sort of let it go, go feral.

23:55Sometimes I can go back and pull some content from it, which is always nice, but it's eatmorebrooktrout at blogspot.com. I even got rid of the eatmorebrooktrout.com URL. I just wasn't using it, so I didn't pay for it. So in Eastern Idaho, in fact, in most of Idaho, save for the Salmon River country and then that country on the western side of the state. The native Salmonid is cutthroat trout, and we have three subspecies of cutthroats in Idaho. In the north and in the central part of the state is the West Slope cutthroat, and then we have the Yellowstone cutthroat here in the eastern side, and then in the southeastern corner in the Bear River and Bear Lake drainages, we have the Bonneville cutthroat trout. So all three of those subspecies are very susceptible to the introduction of non-native fish, particularly rainbow trout, because rainbows and cutthroats spawn at similar times.

25:02They can mingle on the spawning reds, and the offspring is fertile. So it's a fertile hybrid that just continues to, you know, the cycle continues where you might have a, you know, a pure cutthroat spawning with a rainbow one year, and the next year you've got a hybrid spawning with a pure cutthroat. The next year you've got a, you know, a hybrid spawning with a rainbow. I mean, it just, the cycle goes on and on. So Fish and Game, and to their credit, is working really hard to keep rainbows out of the tributaries to the South Fork. The South Fork itself, the Fish and Game asks anglers to catch and kill any rainbows, no catch and release of rainbows on the river itself. Now, you know, there are other rivers in the area where rainbows are more, a little bit more common, like the Henry's Fork. And, you know, certainly catch and release is the dominant ethic these days, and that counts for rainbows and brown trout on the Henry's Fork. So to kind of get into why the brook trout thing you know started to eat more brook trout idea is brookies are really hard on those small waters that tenkara anglers really love in fact you're you know you and in colorado you deal with the same challenges we deal with here and i know brookies are just they're voracious they have a life force that i truly admire i love catching brook trout i also love eating brook trout but brookies spawn in the fall and by the time that cutthroats are spawning in the spring brook trout fry are already out and they have a kind of a biological head start if you will over cutthroats so when cutthroats hatch out you know say they spawn in april may june by the time those fry are out and about at you know at the end of july and into august the brook trout are probably two or three inches long in some instances and have a real advantage and what happens is brookies essentially take over they don't they don't mingle on the spawning beds like they do with rainbows but they just take over and when brook trout take over and you've all seen this they stunt and they get really small to the point where a four or five inch fish is a spawning adult and as fun as that can be in a backcountry setting with a lightweight fly rod or a ten car rod imagine what it would be like if you had what was actually the fish that actually evolved there and is perfect for those conditions you wouldn't have you know you wouldn't catch 54 inch brook trout but instead you might catch 10 12 to 15 inch cutthroats and that is what we're what i when i when i say eat more brook trout that's what i'm talking about no absolutely and it's a good call yes and absolutely it's the same thing in colorado Actually, I watched it firsthand.

28:11One of the streams nearby here, they populated it or they planted some native cutthroat. And I started catching them. I didn't realize they had been planted. I used to only catch brook trout there. All of a sudden, I started catching cutthroat. And then within one season, it kind of reverted back to just brook trout because during the summer, the cutthroat, you know, they fry out. But the water level is also very low. and brook trout seem to be totally fine with those low water levels you know you often catch them in these little tiny beaver ponds and that kind of thing so yeah they're voracious and prolific so it's and it is the best eating as you say yeah if you can find some that are big enough to eat i would totally do it um yeah you know and i think it's so hard in today's catch and release world for fly fishers of any of any stripe to kill a fish um but honestly in some instances it's absolutely the right thing to do absolutely the right thing to do yeah and i've done a podcast at least one uh where i talk about you know just my thoughts on the responsible eating and taking a fish because sometimes we think of catch and release as this only way to go this dogma and there's a lot of value to catch and release but i think in a responsible way sometimes there's a lot more value in potentially keeping some fish like in the case of brook trout where you know like rock mountain national park here they want you to keep uh you know i don't know if there's a bag limit used to be like 10 you know brook trout because they just want them trying to get them out of there um and it does nothing but yeah that's i'll post a link uh if anybody's listening into this and wants to learn about my thoughts on that but i think they're very similar to chris's as well you know some no no native prolific you know trout places that you just don't see anglers and that kind of thing um yeah so so you know like so you kind of went south a little bit for a moment before i interrupted you um did you have something that you were going to point out about fishing a little south of Idaho Falls?

30:23Oh, you know, there's the Blackfoot River, which the upper regions of the Blackfoot River is a really, really great trout fishery. Again, mostly cutthroats. There are some streams farther south, tributaries to the Bear and the Portnuff that have brook trout. And of course, where they have brook trout, they don't have much else. But the Bear River itself as an amazing fishery. And for those of you who don't know much about the Bear River, it starts in the high Uinta Mountains of Utah, flows kind of north into Wyoming, cuts across the lower kind of, it's like a pizza pie slice of Idaho. And then it flows eventually into the Great Salt Lake. So it's actually the longest river in the world that does not flow into an ocean. Wow, I didn't know that. A little bit of trivia for you. And the bear river is a great cutthroat fishery in spots. It's been pretty heavily developed and used over the years.

31:29But those fish in the bear are called Bonneville cutthroats, and they're very adaptable. They are able to adapt to high water temperatures, which is something that's a bit unusual for cutthroats. A lot of cutthroats have to have a water temperature within a certain range, but the cutthroats in the Bear River have been documented at, you know, surviving and thriving in water temperatures well over 70 degrees, which is really warm for trout. But that's it. So that's kind of this, this Eastern quadrant there of Idaho. And if you move to the, for me to the North part of Idaho, the fastest way for me to get there is to actually drive through Montana rather than do a sort of an L shaped drive through Idaho. And North Idaho is a different world altogether. And so a lot of it is an inland rainforest that connects with northwest Montana and southern British Columbia. And it's great lake fishing for rainbows, kokanee.

32:33There's even, believe it or not, there's a King's Salmon Run out of Lake Coeur d'Alene that goes up some of the rivers there. The St. Mary's River is in North Idaho, and the St. Joe River is also in North Idaho. So is the Selway and the Locksaw. All of those are excellent cutthroat trout streams. And in their more remote reaches, there are some really big fish, you know, 18, 20-inch cutthroat, sometimes even bigger. And on a Tenkara, they're great fun. North Idaho is also home to bull trout, which is our native char. it's a relative of the brook trout the arctic char um dolly varden it's sort of our answer to that to those fish and bull trout get really big and they are they are found in the salmon river drainage uh north north generally speaking we'll try to protect it as well they are protected you can you can fish for them and i'd hope you must release them in other states you can't even target them like montana it's there's only one or two places you can go to target bull trout but in idaho you can fish for bull trout you just cannot keep them in any way shape or form and bull trout i don't know if you guys know this but bull trout get really big you know it's not unusual to see 24 26 28 inch bull trout um and they are voracious they look they look exactly like you would expect them to look they look mean and hungry all the time and on tenkara i've i've caught small bull trout on tenkara um you know 10 12 inches i've never caught a really big bull trout on tenkara yeah i actually remember there's a website called backpacking light you know ryan jordan was the guy that created that he was one of the pioneers of content on backpacking ultralight backpacking but also pack rafting and i think he talked about catching bull trout on tenkara and if i remember right he said that it's kind of like uh lassoing a bowl with dental floss so he has caught some of the big stuff but it's uh yeah i can only imagine what that fight would be like yeah that's a pretty good analogy i I have fishing in a little tiny tributary to the Salmon River above the town of Riggins.

35:04I did catch about a 22 and a half inch bull trout on a two-weight fly rod, which was quite the rodeo. I was actually fishing for little red bands, which is the other native Salmon and Idaho, the red band, which is a rainbow trout subspecies. subspecies and a lot of people, especially in the biology and the science communities, understand that red bands are likely steelhead that just chose to stay home rather than travel to the ocean. Interesting, because there's the red band trout in the Sierra Nevada too, like I used to, when I used to go think out of fishing early on in Sierra, there was the red band in the cloud river in northern california wonder if they have any relationship because that's closer to the ocean too same yeah same general ideas and and oregon is the same way you know that the shoes has big red bands um but then they they just don't migrate to sea and they also get around a steelhead so it's it's just one of these weird um you know hard to explain biological phenomenon where at one point you know a fish is is you know comes out of the gravel as a you know and a fry and decides i like it here or i'm out of here you know it's just it's weird yeah yeah yeah i never quite get the the biological transition from you know like a uh a migrating fish the one that just decides to stay landlocked it's just kind of a it's an interesting concept for sure yeah so you know so it's and the other thing about idaho like it seems to me like there's this huge variety in terrain like you know when i picture idaho like i fished like from boise you know like into the um what do you call the silver uh sun valley kind of area and you know like i always and also like when you're in those areas it's easier going to oregon and you kind of have this more of a open high desert kind of feel but I've also like driven up in in the northern Idaho and it was like rugged mountains is the is there like a way is that kind of like accurate or is it like mountains all over the place how to describe the topography over there it is such a varied state you know where I live we have sort of a rocky mountain topography um and that's kind of true for eastern and much of central idaho it's you know the sawtooths are you know one of the most underrated mountain ranges in the in the country in terms of just sheer beauty i think they're teton beautiful you know the tetons are dramatic and stunning and i get the exact same feeling when i look at the sawtooth just just rugged hardcore backcountry and there is good fishing in the sawtooth a lot of it is in um high mountain lakes that require a bit of a walk but there's some around the town of stanley idaho which is the essentially the top of idaho if you if you you know if you imagine idaho is a giant pyramid stanley sits right there at the top and all the stuff runs off all the water runs off of Stanley or the Sawtooth area essentially then you go north and you get out of the more rugged mountains but you're into dense, dense rainforest with Spanish moss, a lot of people call it old man's beard it kind of hangs off the trees, there's a lot of rain, a lot of water it could just as well rain during the winter as it would snow just big ponderosas, big fir trees and cedar trees.

38:55It's got a real Northwest feel to it. And then Southern Idaho, imagine, you know, if you will, just kind of put a picture in your mind of the state of Idaho map in your, in your, in your brain and just draw a smiley face across the bottom, a third of the state. And that would be the snake, that would be the snake river. and the snake is all volcanic basalt cliffs and canyons in very desert open country um it's warm it's hot in the summer um this is where you know these days the it's really good smallmouth and largemouth bass fishing in some of the reservoirs the river itself has become an amazing smallmouth bass fishery. Also the carp part there, there is some trout fishing. You know, it used to be before all the dams went in on the lower snake, salmon and steelhead would bump their noses at the base of Shoshone Falls outside of Twin Falls, Idaho. And now that's not a, I mean, that's basically a a bass catfish carp kind of fishery there are some sturgeon um god help the guy who hooks the sturgeon on a tenkara rod you know that might be one fish i haven't seen i started telling people that nowadays you can pretty much google any fish species in tenkara and you'll find an image and if you google pike in tenkara your image is probably the one that comes up first because you were, I believe, the first one to catch it.

40:29But, yeah, a sturgeon might be one that hasn't happened yet. I think it can use a tenkara rod as a tube fly for a sturgeon. You know, if you hooked a small one, you know, 20 inches or so, you might be able to bring that up. But sturgeon can get, you know, six, seven feet long. Oh, yeah. It's like trying to pull a refrigerator off the bottom of the river. It's just not going to happen. Yeah, no, I cannot imagine. they're working up yeah yeah i'll give them that and so and one thing that i'm doing right now um you know i think i think we you painted a beautiful picture i think to our re uh to our listeners here you know about the state and you know you kind of have to go through it to see all those pieces but you know the desert and then you have these mountains and then the the rainforest and one thing that i just started doing on our blog actually is just talking a little bit about equipment specifically tenkara gear specific for certain areas uh so if you don't mind maybe like you know like i was going to go to the sawtooth you know national forest um what would you say like might be a good tenkara setup for somebody fishing in the sawtooth for example well you'll you'll have to help me out because it's been a while since i've bought and bought or purchased or even reviewed a new tenkara rod i still have my old iwana that i absolutely love and I use that almost I think it's got a 6-10 ratio 6-4 yeah we kind of stopped talking too much about that the flex ratio yeah it's got a moderate not too flexible not too stiff it's kind of a mid flex rod and I really like it I really like it in fact it's probably I bet it's 12 years old and I still use it And I really like it. I don't, I guess I just don't really see it for what I use it for. I don't see a need for anything new or different. I would say for small streams throughout the state, and that would be anything from, say, you know, like Little Moose Creek that I was telling you about to some of those tributaries that run into the Snake or the Henry's Fork.

42:41anything in the Sawtooth Sun Valley area maybe not for Silver Creek because Silver Creek has big fish but in the Bigwood also big fish but they're just a little bit easier to wrangle in the Bigwood River I would stick with something kind of light to medium weight and light to medium flex and I would honestly go 11 to 12 feet and then either go with a level line. I've seen a lot of folks lately using lengths of really light, like one-weight fly line instead of the braided line that kind of started things out. And just recently I've kind of become a convert into actually using Tenkara flies. I was stubborn in my, you know, Western United States mindset that nothing is going to outfish in atoms.

43:45But, you know, those... I know the feeling well on that. We all go through that. The traditional tenkara flies are, I mean, I don't even know what they look like to the fish, but they look good. And they'll hit them. So, you know, I'd be somewhat of a generalist. I mean, for the most part, small streams, particularly in the Rockies, you know, a good attractor pattern is as good as anything you've got. And I would stick with that. No need to go really big or heavy unless you're going to chase bass out of a boat. And, you know, Tenkar out of a drift boat is a whole new level of excitement. Oh, Kelly. yeah you've got it yeah you've got a guide that um you know has all the um you know has the net has the has the oars maybe you've got somebody in the rear of the boat and it becomes kind of a circus with somebody who can't let me line out exactly yeah no i think the 1241 is a great rod in sawtooth area because it you can cover all kinds of waters from the some of the smaller covered up streams you know to some of the slightly bigger lakes you know because there's a lot of them um and then you know you fish in the teton and your kids you know like your tenkara fishing there i always think of the teton as like bigger water super open so when i was there last time in the teton i fished the ito uh tenkara rod which is the adjustable 13 foot 14 foot 7 inch have you ever had a chance to try that no no i've never fished one that you can vary the length on i'd be interested though yeah all right i'll have to hook you up so you can take you to the teton area let us know how you like it because that's you know like where you can vary a lot you know you can go to a lake and you want more reach or you can go to a smaller stream but it's still open um you know so that's the impression i got in that area is that fair to say yeah the teton kind of area yeah teton would be um an exception to that rule you want something a little bit bigger um The nice thing about the Teton is chances are you're going to be fishing from a watercraft of some sort, whether it's a single-person pontoon craft or a drift boat or whatever.

46:02I've even seen people out there lately on stand-up paddle boards. Nice. Yeah, they don't make those for me. I'm 6'5", 300 pounds. They don't make those for me. but uh but um yeah the longer rod uh maybe with a little bit more backbone would be appropriate on the teton there are some legitimate big cutthroats in the teton yeah no that's uh one of the attractive parts of the area you know and then all the people going around the yellowstone you know and uh yeah the teton area it's really really something uh to be I see. Well, yeah, I think that's a really good overview of the state, you know, for anybody looking at going Tenkara fishing. Hopefully, you know, after this, if you live in the state, you know, maybe explore something not too far from you. But if you're coming from out of state, once this whole COVID is kind of blown over, you can take your Tenkara rod and have a lot of fun.

47:03And get Chris Hunt's guidebook, Fly Fishing Guide to the Secret Stream. stream so and i meant to ask about that so just a another you know kind of a part of the conversation you know the the secret stream part of it you know where sure yeah so it's for clarity i mean it um i only i only actually named about a dozen streams in idaho in that book what i really did was kind of give everybody the keys to the castle when it comes to finding these kinds of places in idaho So this was published in 2014. And, you know, to this day, my best friend when I go fishing someplace new, especially if I'm off the grid, is my Idaho Atlas and Gazetteer. I love to find a blue line on the map and find where it either comes in contact with a road or a trail.

48:06And then I go there. And I have no idea what I'm going to expect. But if you're able to kind of decipher, you know, this looks a lot like this and this was loaded with wild brook trout, then chances are you're in the same kind of place. But, you know, I can't count the times over the years, especially in Idaho. And I live in the eastern part of Idaho. So for me to get to north Idaho, it's a full day commitment. So when I go and I have my Idaho map with me, you know, good example, probably eight, ten years ago, I was driving over to see some friends who live in Orofino, which is on the Clearwater River. The clear water flows into the snake, but the locksaw and the cellway, they flow into the clear water. It's a great steelhead river in the fall when we get fish that make it over all those dams and the lower snake, which these days is seldom.

49:10But I had my gazetteer with me and I took a turn up the cellway and I kept driving up and driving up. And then I took a tributary and I kept driving up and driving up. just following the blue line on the map. And when I got up there, I was catching these gorgeous Westlow cutthroats that had good size and they were hungry. And Tenkara was the perfect way to go after them. Nice. Yeah. And I cannot think of a more rewarding way to catch fish. You know, like we always say, it's extremely rewarding to catch fish with a fly that you tied yourself. But I also think it's extremely rewarding to find fish in a place that you didn't really read about. You know, like you're not being given the directions to catch fish. You're really kind of exploring on your own and finding something that, for all you know, maybe nobody's ever fished sometimes. So that's something special, I think. Yeah. And, you know, you do get away from the crowds that way. One great example of a river that is full of opportunities like that in North Idaho is the St. Joe River.

50:16it's stunningly beautiful and there's road access along a lot of it but the little tributaries are phenomenal excellent well Chris it was a real pleasure to catch up a little bit with you again and get a good overview of the state of Idaho from somebody who really seems to know it like the back of your hand and learn a little bit more about it and hopefully people will look up your book and what's the name of your other book again? So the one that just came out last year is called Catching Yellowstone's Wild Trout. It's a fly fishing guide and history or history and guide, I should say. And, you know, I live close to Yellowstone. It's not, you know, we have a little tiny sliver of it in Idaho, but most of the park is in Wyoming and a little bit more of the park is in Montana. but Yellowstone is one of those places that every diehard trout angler should spend some time exploring it's and the book that I wrote is you know it's not so much a traditional guidebook as it is focusing on the natural history of all of the trout native or otherwise that are found in the park and then I offer up some ideas on where you might catch each one of those species of fish, whether it's, you know, the park is reintroducing West Slope cutthroat into its northwest corner. They're also reintroducing a rare native population of Arctic grayling.

51:49But the park has Yellowstone cutthroats, has mountain whitefish, it has invasive lake trout, which have caused a real problem in Yellowstone Lake. And then it has browns and rainbows as well. So that's kind of what that book is about. It's kind of where to go to catch each of those subspecies of fish. And like I said, it came out last summer, just in time for the park to be almost all but shut down until recently. But if you're planning a trip to Yellowstone, this year is so weird. There's no tour buses allowed this year because of social distancing requirements. I've been up into the park a couple of times since opening day, which was at the end of May. And the crowds aren't bad. The fishing on the Firehole River was really good. Firehole's a great Tenkara stream, by the way, especially if you like to swing soft tackles.

52:49I just I think the Yellowstone Park is you know if you're a fly fishing addict and it's something that you're passionate about you've got to add that to your bucket list and then the first book you refer to is called Fly Fishing Idaho's Secret Waters and it came out in 2014 and it is essentially a how-to with a few where-to places in it nice excellent well thanks again chris really appreciate you making the time to talk to us about uh yellowstone and idaho i got a two for one on this episode so that's cool thanks for having me i appreciate it yeah my pleasure and um you know for our listeners make sure to you know check out those books but also trout unlimited you know which is main uh main work we've always advocated that anybody picking up a rod if you're new to fly fishing take a look at trout unlimited try to join because they support the trout habitat and they have a lot of good projects that we've highlighted in this podcast in the past but another plug for you and i'll make sure to put a link on the tenkarausa.com forward slash podcast for this episode and until next time on the Tenkara Cast thanks so much chris thank you daniel And as always, I'd like to especially thank Takenobu.

54:18Nikogawa, also known as Takenobu, provides a lot of the music that we use on this podcast, as well as a lot of Tenkara USA videos. You can find his music at takenobumusic.com. And this is the song Tokidoki. My pain is still starting to bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom Now we meet many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more many more Now we meet with many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Love Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Go Eagles Eagles Go Eagles Eagles Go Eagles Eagles Go Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Eagles Thank you.