Conversations: Japan with Adam Trahan and Adam Klags

0:00This is Daniel Galhardo and you're listening to the Tenkara Cast, a podcast about the simple Japanese method of fly-fishing, Tenkara. In the Tenkara Cast we'll be sharing information on techniques, history, philosophy, and Tenkara stories from anglers all over the world. This podcast is brought to you by Tenkara USA, introducing Tenkara outside of Japan since 2009. It's only possible we create content such as this podcast and videos because of your support. So we thank you so very much for purchasing Tancariyusei Rods, Lines, and Flies. I hope you enjoy learning more about the simple method of fly fishing. Start recording. So before we start getting into the conversation on today's topic about Japan, we got two Adams on the line. How do you guys think I should address you? Should we use the same names we got over there? I think we should, just for fun. Yeah, why not? It's our deal.

1:01So it's Adam Trahan, Adam's son, and? Yeah, I'm Adam Chan. Oh, okay. That's what they gave us. Okay, so for our listeners today, we're just getting the conversation started here about Adam Trahan and Adam Clagg's recent visit to Japan. and in Japanese there's honorific titles essentially and usually you know when you're talking to somebody you know with more experience you address them as son or you know more respectful kind of name so Adam's son is going to be Adam Tran and Adam Chan is the younger Adam you know usually Chan is kind of like there's been multiple ways that people have explained it to me but essentially just somebody a little bit younger. And I'm sure if Adam Clags was there by himself, he would have been addressed as son, but he was the younger one, so you get the charm.

2:03Yeah, they said it had so many to do also with personality that sometimes more playful or whatever gets charm, something along those lines. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like little Adam, you know? Exactly. It's a cute way of addressing people, yeah. But very kind of kind as well. It's not in any way disrespectful. It's just friendly. So we got Adam's son and Adam Clags on the line here. And, you know, let's get started on this conversation. So you guys recently went to Japan. And by the way, this is the first time I'm ever doing, you know, a three-way phone call conversation. so hopefully you'll go smoothly here but it's always a little tricky so for fun i'm in arizona phoenix arizona adam's on adam tran yeah and with a better introduction too i should probably introduce you guys a little bit more but i'll probably have you talk to you about yourselves too but adam tran has the website tenkara fisher it's tenkara-fisher.com uh and that's where you can find like a good forum of people and good reports and that kind of thing. Adam Clags, do you have a website? I think you do, right? Yeah, I have a blog. It's more of a personal journal, but it looks like a few people read it. And it's just called Of Rock and Riffle.

3:31Yes. I was trying to remember that. Yeah, I did read that. Sorry about that. No, it's fine. It's about backpacking and fishing. It's not only Tenkara fishing. yeah and there's been some good posts in there so tell me guys when were you in japan so today we're talking here september 29th uh when were you guys out uh visiting japan go ahead adam uh i i got there a little earlier on the 10th and then adam arrived the day or so after me and we met up like 24 or 48 hours later i just did some tourism for fun uh things like a cat cafe or an Owl Cafe, you know, the fun things Japan has to offer. And then we met up and we saw a rod maker on the 11th and then our trip lasted until the 21st. We did so much for the 20th, right around there. Wow. Yeah, that's a good, good long trip. And Adam Chan, is that, was that your first time to Japan or had you been there before? For me, this is the second trip. Last year I went in March and I had gotten to link up with Go Ishii and a bunch of his friends to fish in Nara, but I was there very early in March, so I couldn't get a prime season fishing experience.

4:44So I was really psyched to get back there and see Japan again and fish again there. And Adam's son, Adam Tran, was that your second trip? Second Tenkara trip, I have been once before when I was in the military. So second dedicated Tenkara trip. And when was your first one again? Has it been a couple of years now? Yeah, in 13. 13, oh, wow. It went for two weeks. So both of you guys have been to Japan a couple of times. And this time, I mean, you were kind of, you know, I know Adam's son started making the plans a little while ago, and I actually kind of wanted to join, but I couldn't, unfortunately. How did you guys connect and end up on this trip together? Well, actually, it was mostly Adam Sanz doing. I think I got kind of lucky here getting invited because I was available and timing worked out for me.

5:48But also, I think there had been some interest in trying to get a few other Americans over to see what it's all about and to maybe meet Sebata and others. And I think I just pulled the lucky ticket sort of thanks to Adam and Casey for that. Pretty much that's how it went. You know, he has different circles than I do. And, you know, the first time I went pretty much by myself and came back and it was great. But, you know, I really wanted to have the experience to share with someone else. And it takes dedication and money and time planning. And Adam-chan had everything that it took to go. So we met up in Tokyo and started our adventure. Yeah, some of the credit goes to you too, Daniel, actually, because we sort of hung out in person for the first time at your summit last year.

6:48So we kind of got to know each other then, and that's what made me know it would probably be a great travel duo. Right. Nice. Yeah, that was a fun summit. Yeah, I remember you guys hanging out for a little bit. That was a fun event with some whiskey flowing at certain points. And talking about whiskey, I did have a note to make sure to talk about food, but maybe I'll just bring that up right now because actually Adam's son, Adam Tran, last time we talked a little bit about sake, I believe. And I know there's like all these beautiful images of you guys in Japan. And I was so jealous. And some of it was like some good amount of sake passing around. Well, fishing in Japan is definitely code word for drinking sake and up with good friends. And I believe you guys both share a little bit of that passion for sake. And Adam San has been talking about sake for quite some time. Yep, yep. How was the second time, Adam-san?

7:52It was excellent. Adam-chan has a good palate for Junmai and Genjo. So I just drink what everybody else is drinking. But in this case, he sort of led the way in picking out some good tastes. And then when Ishii-san got on board and we went shopping, he sort of led us through it. And when we got up to the Bansho, it was just everywhere. So I forgot how many Magnums we bought. I think it was like four or five or something like that. Yeah, and that was the first run. Yeah, the first run. He took us to the nice sake shop, and he let me, you know, I knew only a couple of them that I picked, and he picked the rest, and they were nice. And then, you know, when we got up there, we picked some more, whatever was available at that point. And we already have some Japanese words kind of flowing around here. Adam-san, can you tell us, or one of you guys maybe, can you tell us what the, so we got, we talked about the styles of sake, the Jumai and Ginjo.

9:03What are those sake names? Adam-chan, this is your kind of sign. So there's all different types of sake and basically there's grades. And so words in Japanese that people know for those grades are junmai, which means no alcohol added. Ginjo has to do with the milling of the rice. So they take the original rice and they mill off the outside to get to the good stuff inside. And then there's daiginjo, which takes that a step further and mills it down more. And then there's other words that will indicate, okay, how do they actually ferment it? And it gets more confusing from there. So probably takes a whole lesson. But it was great. We got to try pretty much all the different kinds. It was a pleasure. And Adam Cleggs, Adam Chun, I was actually in New York City earlier this year. And we hung out in a really good Japanese restaurant. And we ended up having a lot of psyched. Why do you know so much? Can you tell our listeners what your background is? Yes, so I sell wine and our company also sells sake and Madeira and port and other things.

10:10So I've learned about it that way. And that's my first connection to Japan was more through sake. I knew about Tenkara, but I didn't get to go until I got involved with sake. So that was integral for me too. Nice. So that sounds like a really good combination of things coming together for you there. Oh, yeah. and uh adam san you uh also talked about bansho for a second there what is a bansho um it is a essentially what i was taught it was a guardhouse between like counties or provinces and as people traveled uh they would either go through the bansho or check-in and a couple of couple of samurai were stationed at the bansho and I believe it was 270 years old yeah yeah so I mean it's you know a typical old Japanese big home with the you know the sliding paper doors and you know multi-story this one has two uh irori um to the indoor fire you know kitchens uh and uh just beautiful gorgeous wood and um always filled with smoke yes this is true and they said it was important for for curing the wood and keeping the roof from uh it was very interesting and it could sleep probably they said around 20 people on a you know on a busy night uh for the family just including the family and their uh either servants or workers at that time that's amazing like i think some of my most memorable experiences have been to stay in like in some of these really old traditional japanese homes that you kind of i think our listeners can kind of imagine in their heads you know like maybe from watching The Last Samurai or something like that.

12:14I'll have to add that when you go to Japan, fishing is really secondary to the culture. When you go there, you're just immersed in a different culture, and it's a beautiful, clean culture that's just quite enjoyable experience. Oh, yeah. The Bancho just put, you know, that setting was so fitting. You know, this is a lifetime memorable trip. You know, I may go back, you know, again and again and again, but I'll always remember this trip very sharply. Yeah, no, I think that's absolutely correct. I mean, the culture, all the things that you can find in Japan from hot springs to foods to sake to the camaraderie with people are really the reason to go, not the fishing. But before we forget what we're talking about here today, which it is fishing. How was the fishing this time, Adam-san? um it was explained to me in a scale of one to ten that it was really only you know 25 percent or you know two and a half it was just the fishing wasn't uh the catching wasn't that good the fishing is always excellent but um yeah I think everybody caught fish uh but it was just a little slow um on the two big fishing days you know i caught about half a dozen on each day so it was um you know i was satisfied but the uh our host um keichi son he just said it was you know a little slow probably due to the weather okay yep yeah we we got hit with some crazy weather i mean there must have been multiple typhoons and i don't know eight to ten earthquakes that happened while we were there and uh yeah so we were we were very lucky wherein we we've got our fishing days in on the prime weather days it really worked out for us and i just makes me you know wonder if someone up there is looking out for us that's lucky and so how many days of fishing you guys do total i think we got two days of fishing two full days of fishing exactly and we we had a third but it was just pouring and it was like we all just kind of decided universally that we needed to just get out of the river valley and get to the banjo.

14:35That is a story in itself. A big, huge story. Well, we got a few minutes here. What's the story? Adam, you should talk about that. That was what happened. You know, it rained, and it rained pretty hard. And where I'm from, there are slot canyons. And you always have to be aware of the weather, not only where you are, but uh you know 20 miles away in the headwaters so it rained and it rained and it rained and we were under tarps but i'm thinking my head is where i'm from and i'm thinking these steep uh forested you know valley river stream is just going to rise and we got to the point where we were at a couple of miles hiking, you know, through the stream, you know, it's steep sided. So you had to go through the water. And I'm thinking, you know, we're a long way from home. And in two days, I've got to be on a plane. So I'm wondering about the water rising and, you know, the sake is flowing and our, our hosts are not concerned, but inside my head, I'm pretty concerned because we've a long journey home and uh the the water did rise um and it did become a problem and uh adam chan why don't you pick up from there yeah so so it luckily didn't get as crazy as it would have in in the slot canyons but but it came up to the point where we no longer could walk along the shore in a number of spots uh easily nor cross so we did cross some pretty deep stuff you know waist chest deep fast moving water people were there to help and that's a big thing teamwork is huge and many times people were there to to help have your back and tell you which way to go and where it was safe and you know i never felt like people weren't looking out for me but you know there were moments where it's it's risky uh the kind of thing that you don't really do when you fish here as much right especially stuff i don't do when i'm alone uh which is some of my trips are So we were walking down the river and had forded a couple of difficult spots and finally came to one bend where there was no way to ford the raging river.

16:58So there was a, quote, path up on a cliff and we literally had to climb a pretty much more than 45 degree angle. Like it was very vertical with crumbling ground to get to a decaying piece of rope, which only helped you for like five feet. And then you had to get over the crest of this tiny little hill thing. and then once you made that feat possible, you had to walk on a collapsing less than one foot wide, like your foot, not 12 inches wide, quote, path that was also crumbling. It was harrowing to say the least and so I looked at it. I was like, OK, I may as well go up first after Mariamisan. So I just tried it and it was rough and I somehow made it, thought I was going to fall a few times. but yeah we we all helped each other up they eventually strung a rope up and then everybody else was able to come up with a little bit of rope help that did not uh really take away the danger from more sections though so it was interesting that's uh that's amazing i'm just kind of imagining as you talked here i'm just kind of imagining the situation like you know with the heavy uh kind of woods i mean the the woods they're kind of dense so i'm kind of assuming You guys are going through some kind of dense wooded area, climbing up some muddy kind of terrain.

18:19Raining, packs, mud, you know, decaying trail, like you said. Now, was this a camping kind of trip when you guys decided to walk out a couple of miles? Yeah, it was a backpacking trip. Keiichi's style, not that he didn't day fish at all, but his style was to go in with a group of friends this way. Akechi-san was telling us all about how he normally likes to just bring a small group, three people, maybe four. They go up for three four days with their backpacks. They bring a bunch of delicious food. I mean, ultralight is out the window out there. My god. I felt guilty. They were carrying stew pots and bags of potatoes. Blue tarps. Yes, which are called bruschito, which I really loved. It's so direct. And man, And that all became our friend when we were up there. But that's how they do it. And it's about being with friends and drinking and then getting up and fishing during the day and then coming back and grilling some meat and eating some sashimi.

19:23It's great. Nice. So you did end up sleeping up there then? Yeah. Okay. And the next day when you were planning to come out, it was pouring rain. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Water rising. Yeah. But it was great. yeah and those little canyons i've seen the water rises that you know like water rising a couple of areas there because they there's a lot of tiny little gorges that funnel the water into some areas and then you know even below like where you get into the main cities like a lot of rivers are kind of channelized and the water can rise pretty fast how are your how are the hosts feeling were day like just no big deal or just no big deal. That's, that's the, their environment, you know, so they weren't, um, as a matter of fact, they said where we were going was pretty easy for them. Like not much of a challenge. Yeah. They, they were fast. They were hopping up the rocks and, uh, I do this at home quite a bit and, you know, I can spend a couple hours doing this, but, uh, they were, they were faster than I was. I was having trouble keeping up and they were, they were so much better at it i was learning a lot just from watching how they moved it's it's quite interesting yeah and you you guys were both thinking it was kind of a big deal huh oh yeah me for sure yeah it sounds like it i mean i'm kind of imagining and a couple years a few years ago i planned to do a fair amount of camping there and i wanted to go by myself a couple of times and you know at least once i ended up not even trying because it was pouring rain and it's you know camping in the rain can be kind of challenging like you have to have really good protection and you know make sure to stay warm and were you guys comfortable at least like at nighttime was it raining at all or was it good weather like at night pretty much the entire time and we were very comfortable it was cozy under the you know the big huge uh tarps uh you string a string of string between two trees, throw the tarp over it, dye them out, blue tarps for your carpet, so to speak, take off your boots, have camp shoes. And, you know, you try to keep it clean on the floor, but it's bigger than you're, you know, laying out in your sleeping bag. So So you're relatively dry.

21:49But if the tarp is touching in a certain place or the seams aren't sealed, the water will come through. So you're out there and it's raining. And I remember about 2 o'clock in the morning, I'm going to get my phone out and record it. And I did. And I just listened to it every once in a while. so you you can probably not see much but you have the sound of rains that uh right just pouring beating on that tarp wow sounds like a an incredible experience and you camped out for one night or two nights just one that's enough that's enough everything is soaked and i carry an iPhone. I don't, uh, I don't put it in a, um, a case. I just keep it in my pocket. And I was, that was my main concern is all my data, all my, uh, pictures, my recordings, my notes, everything was in that iPhone and, uh, it got fogged up, but Japan is the place of rice. So I got a bag filled with rice and stuck my phone in there. It sucked the water out of the foam and everything's fine i see what kind of fish were you catching there adam son um we we caught you you wanna i do not know uh what's um you know type of you wanna it was but it was yeah coruscant ended up getting one yamame in the higher section of the stream the first day when we went but it was very small like above where i took a nap yeah yeah exactly okay so there's pretty much mostly Iwana and one Yamame maybe um yeah mostly Iwana and Adam Tran Adam San you found a chance to take a nap even with all the rain well um basically I was exhausted and uh Ishii San he kind of looked like he wanted to you know make sure I was going to be okay too so we both found a beach and just took a nap and I think they went above maybe another half hour and turned around and came back it was a welcome I like to take a nap when I fish it was a good time for me to do so I think that's particularly funny just because I was fishing last week and uh here in Colorado and the fishing was really good for a while and then it completely shut down and I had a couple of friends with me and you know we had a couple of options but I was like you know why don't we just take a nap and uh see if the fish pick up in a couple hours and sure enough we laid down and took a nice nap and i was kind of thinking i should do a podcast episode about napping while fishing it was a experience yeah it's the thing yeah i i have to push through it i can't i'm not much of a napper uh not that i don't want to be but i i'm not good at it so i basically just was like i'm gonna i'm gonna push through and i i bounded ahead with them and we we covered a lot of distance quickly and hit a lot of pools and it's a little nicer too because you, you get to split the group up and then it makes it easier because it's, you know, worth actually mentioning how, how they fish there on a small stream like this as a group, you, you line up and take turns, you know, everybody's fair to each other. So you're a team and you know, you put one person at point and then everyone gets a few pools or, or a fish caught or whatever it is. And then you go to the back of the line and you can kind of practice casting as you walk up. And that's what they did. And it was really, really, really nice of them to give us point a majority of the time. I mean, we were trying to be polite and give it up too, but they were just very insistent about in certain places us being at point. So we got to catch fish, which was really nice of them. So I mean, that was like a huge honor.

25:39Yeah, that's worth mentioning. I think I've noticed that a lot. I mean, And, you know, sometimes, especially when the fishing starts getting a little bit better, you know, yeah, we'll kind of leapfrog and kind of start focusing on our own fishing. But especially when the fishing is a little slower, I've noticed that, you know, and they're being good hosts, you know, like wanting to make sure that we catch fish because they can catch it any other time. But I've always appreciated how the Japanese have been very good and gracious about giving the head of the pool and that kind of thing. Yeah. And, and there, you know, it's, it's worth mentioning too, I think about the culture in general. I mean, the Japanese people are such a welcoming, helpful, like kind people. They want you to have a prime time. They, they know, you know, they think about the time you spent traveling and what it was like and all that stuff. And, and they, they let that reflect in their actions, which is, you know, it's, it's a special thing. It's not something you get everywhere. although I have experienced that in other places through Tenkara as well.

26:43So maybe part of that is the Tenkara community too. But it's very, very nice to be treated so well when you're in a foreign place and you may not feel amazing all the time and you're tired and on a weird time zone. And then they can just snap you right back into that prime zone. You're there. You're having a great time and it's amazing. You're truly like rock stars. Yeah, exactly. Like you don't know if you're dreaming or not. And so that's a great thing to be able to experience that. It's truly, as Adam said before, definitely a once-in-a-lifetime kind of thing with experiences you will remember forever. And I owe it all to many other people. So thank you to all of them. Yes. Yeah. So tell me, maybe Adam's son can talk a little bit about who were you fishing with? Were they the same people that you fished with in 13? No, totally different group. Um, uh, Ishii-san, he is, I, I would like to say, I, I probably consider him to be a number one Tenkara ambassador as far as crossing different lines and, and, you know, getting past politics and, you know, just taking, uh, uh, Tenkara fishers, uh, fishing and to different groups, with the different experts.

28:04So he basically took time out of his schedule and ushered us around. And so the trip really starts with Go Ishii. And he brought us up to Tadami. I think it was like four hours by car where we met Sebata-san and Marirami-san. He's a photographer for Antwaters magazine. Right. Kora-san is Goishi's friend who I fished with last year with Go. And then we met Keiichi's crew and Sebata's crew together. Yamano-san is a bamboo rod maker. um just that's a story right there in itself and uh keiji ito who is just my family is indebted to him for taking care of me in some pretty rough spots so there was a you know a crew what was it five five of them who we uh hung out with and uh Sebata san was our uh he sort of took care of us while we were in, you know, not fishing by feeding us and cooking, you know, incredible meals of mushrooms and greens and his plum wine.

29:33Was he foraging as you guys were there? He was kind of hanging out in the cabin and in the bancho. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah, he had foraged a couple of days before we got there and he had gotten us some maitake mushrooms, some gobo root, this stuff that was like a fern-like thing that's very bitter, that's almost like horseradishy that grows up high. That's what we were eating when we were drinking the plum wine? Yes. Yeah, okay. So we told his names, and just to kind of clarify to our listeners too, there's a lot of, you know, some of the names might be familiar to those of you who are listening. So Go Ishii, I actually did a podcast episode with him about a year ago when he was here for the last Tenkara Summit last year in 2015. And I do agree, he's a tremendous ambassador for Tenkara over there and here when he comes as well.

30:34And then Sebata-san is who a lot of the listeners will probably recognize immediately because of the Japanese conical hat that he wears. And I've done a couple of stories about him and posted different little tidbits, including a little video of backpacking with him where he was foraging and we're camping on the, what was the term, blue shito? What was it? The blue tarps. I mean, we're like under the blue tarp kind of having that experience of camping and foraging and cooking. And indeed, I mean, he was like incredibly good. I just cook him in the natural foods that he found. So those are a couple of the names that some of our listeners will recognize. And then, of course, I think Adam's son, Adam Tran, has a good report on his website right now, Tenkara Fisher. Have you written anything yet, Adam Tran?

31:35I just started yesterday working on my first post for my blog. I put one nice post on Appalachian Tenkara Anglers Group, I think, on Facebook about kind of 10, my top 10 recognized things from my Japan trip. Sorry, I didn't say that with great English, but that's kind of what it is. And that was kind of fun. And I'm going to expand on that and post it up on my blog, and I'll try and share that around a little bit too, as many photos as I can. And, you know, it was great to have a camera along and be able to take some notes and just, you know, I'm definitely going to share all that as much as I can. And for those of you who are listening to this episode of the Tenkara Cast, I'll put some notes on this episode's page. If you go to tenkarausa.com forward slash podcast and you look for this episode's page, you know, it's going to be something with the two Adams, you know, in Japan. uh i'll make sure to put links to their websites and try to get some photos from you guys if you don't mind sharing some and uh you have my permission just take them as you need thanks and i'll make sure to put links to your complete stories on your websites and wherever you're posting them i think it's really fun to to see you know those things as well um yeah you know i think So I always try to make that as a resource.

33:01But how did you guys get around? So we get a lot of questions of people that are just about to go to Japan, and they contact me saying, like, can you recommend us to anybody there? Can you put us in touch with a guide? I mean, I get a fair number of questions, and it's a little bit challenging because Japan doesn't have really a guiding culture. It's really hard. There's not that many people that you can hire as guides. Adam Chana, can I take this and lead into you? You bet you can. Yes. Okay. I've been twice, and I'm from a city that does not have trains. Our city is horrible. It's big. It's huge. Everybody has a car, and it's not a very well-planned city. So I'm sort of unfamiliar with trains. We have, you know, one light railway and then it just, you know, it's back and forth across the city. So I'm a little intimidated by taking trains.

34:03But Adam Chan picked out a nice hotel at the end of the railway, the Skyliner train from Narita Airport into Ueno, which is about 40 or 50 minutes by a train and literally you get on the train at the station at the airport which is you know just a quick walk get on the train and then you ride the 40 or 50 minutes whatever it is and then when you get off the train it's less than a minute walk to this hotel yeah you're across the street you're literally across the street i mean you could hold your breath and still make it. And so he picked out a good hotel right off the bat. And then I did not realize that I was running around so much in my trips before that I really missed the lesson on how to navigate the trains while I was over there. And it came to me watching Adam-chan, you know, go up and pick his ticket that he's from New York, and he's used to, you know, using the train system. You just go up, you select the language, you select the fair, and you buy your ticket, and you go. And it's in conjunction with your phone. You use Google Maps in the transit portion of the Google Maps on your smartphone, and it becomes extremely easy.

35:45And I'll have to say that Adam Chan, he didn't give me a class, but I just watched him. And, you know, I'm kind of a person that does well with see one, do one, teach one. So I learned a lot by him not helping me, by me just watching him navigate the system. So I learned passively. And Adam Chun, this is probably a good place for you to jump in. Sure. Thanks for that. I appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, it's funny. We talked about that. We talked. We told you. Yeah, we did. Totally. It's funny. It's interesting to think about it through that lens because I didn't really think about that because I've always been from New York. So for me, when I went there last year, it was the same thing. I just – actually, here's the trick for anyone who wants to know. It's not a trick. You just go to the booth as soon as you get off the flight to rent a Wi-Fi device for, I don't know, around $8, $9 a day.

36:45I think it comes out to all said and done. And that gives you Wi-Fi connection for no extra charge the whole time you're there. So you can just then connect your phone to it and treat it like you're using your phone in the United States because it'll tell you in English which train to get on and whatnot. And then all you have to do is look at the signs in the station, which luckily almost all have English. But yeah, I guess it just, it was doable. So we did that because, you know, cabs are very, very expensive. And we took a few and we were like, whoa, that was a lot for not that much of a trip. Yeah, I think that's actually a very valuable tip, the Wi-Fi hotspot, you know, renting it. You can actually, there's a bunch of websites that you can rent ahead of time and you get there and you pick it up, but you can do it there. And that was the first time I did it was this year where I rented a device for the whole time. Oh, you did it too, yeah. Yeah, it's so worth it. Because then you get an app and it tells you the subways and shows your map where you are and that kind of thing.

37:47So, yeah, that's very good advice. The first night I got there, you know, I'm in Tokyo and I can't sleep. And I have a friend here, John Sachin, who saw me log in to Facebook and he's like, go. Right now you've got to go to Tsukiji Fish Market. I'm like, John, you know, I just got here. And he's like, no, you've got to go now. It's 2.30 in the morning in Tokyo. So, you know, I listened to him and I took a cab. And the cab was, I think it was like $30 for a three-mile trip to Tsukiji. And, you know, I went and experienced, you know, the grading of the sushi and the auction and the whole thing. It's an amazing, one of my favorite memories of this visit. And I decided to walk home. And the three-mile walk was, you know, no big deal.

38:48but it was $30 for a cab. I think that's with a penalty after hours too. So cabs are expensive, trains are not. Yep. No, that's, uh, I felt so stupid one time actually that made into the video of my trip with, uh, Sebata son, where I get to this place that, you know, I take like, I'm super exhausted. I just get off the plane and I take like three or four different train rides to get to where we're going to meet it's kind of a long way i mean you have to go from the airport to tokyo and i'm just completely exhausted and then i'm supposed to find his address for the magazine headquarters and this is like eight or nine o'clock at night or something and i'm just about to fall asleep right and uh trying to figure out exactly where it is and i can't really seem to find it so i hailed a cab and it was like the cab actually drove around it was so stupid because the cab literally drove around the block he didn't know exactly where the address was so he stopped and the meter is running and he goes out and asks somebody like where can i find this and and i realized it was like right behind us and he kind of drove back a little bit and dropped me off and it's literally like one around the block trip almost like a 360 degree around the block i was right next to it but i couldn't find exactly the little place and i think it cost me like eight or something.

40:12I felt very silly for that one. I wish I had the Wi-Fi hotspot then on that trip. Yeah, integral to the trip. Wi-Fi is not free there. You have to have a device to connect to it. There's just very limited internet connection unless you buy a phone plan or something like that. now let's talk about besides Tokyo you know which is where most people would probably first arrive uh in terms of getting around and fishing in Japan do you guys have any advice maybe start with Adam San about um how can somebody actually fish in Japan what do you think is the best way to to get there and go fishing it's a it's a tough one for me I can only tell my experience and that is essentially making friends. For me, it's about my website. It started out with my website and then moving on to social media.

41:17But somebody will like what you do and you start friendships that way. And it's usually an English-speaking friend. So with myself, becoming friends with someone who is over there. is, you know, is important to me. I believe now that I could do it on my own, it would be a lot more difficult. I believe I could do it, but it's much more efficient to go with someone to share the experience and to, you know, share the cost. The tolls are super expensive if you're in a car and you're going across, you know, a hundred miles, your toll may be, you know, $60, $80. dollars. Yeah, that was very interesting. So to, you know, to share the expenses, uh, with another person, you know, that's, that's important. And there, there are enough people over there that are pretty vocal about trying to help you. In our case, uh, I think, uh, Isaac Tate of, uh, Fallfish Tancada. He is, uh, you know, I'm not exactly sure of the, where he's at and if it's a business, But he's sort of the man on the scene over there, English speaking guy.

42:36And I'm sure he'd be happy to take or meet someone if he can, if his schedule allows, to go fishing. So for me, it's meeting with people. And you can have an idea of where you want to go here. Like the guidebook that I gave you, Daniel, there was some good information in there. But it's all about Japanese and understanding where you want to go and having a plan. Yeah, yeah. I think what I started telling people more often than not is join one of the Facebook groups. I think kind of anglers is fairly active or one of the forums online. And maybe mention that you're going to Japan. If somebody is available, they might get back to you. But developing a relationship over a longer term like you do is, you know, probably the best way. And I'm going to make sure to put a link to Isaac Tate's website, Fall Fish Tenkara. He's one of the, I mean, as I mentioned, a guiding culture.

43:39It's not really existent in Japan. You know, just a little advice for anybody listening. You know, if you do strike a friendship, you can't really hire a friend to take a fishing. but if you're lucky enough to connect with somebody um just bring them a very nice gift you know and enjoy the experience and and they're doing it because they enjoy it too but uh do make sure to you know japan is a big gift giving culture so it's uh it's kind of important i think to mention that um but yeah i think uh developing relationships is probably the best way you know even for did you guys have much experience i was curious about uh in terms of buying fishing licenses or do you have to really do much when you're fishing with your host situation actually with that it's interesting that you mentioned that um we we actually and both both times went in at like dawn i mean like really early like 5 36 ish and the fishing ticket areas were closed so they i don't know if they took care of it for us after or uh had arranged it ahead of time with with maybe Sebata-san or somebody uh one of the days i think they said it would be fine because if there was a patrol you pay on the spot it's different here it's not like oh we caught you here's a ticket it's like oh hey like do you have a ticket uh so sorry if not like would you like to buy one yeah sure we'd like to buy one so they said that's kind of how it worked on the river system we were on that's a good way of putting it so so yeah we didn't actually have to. Last year, however, we went to an office and there was like a fishing ticket office and it had this crazy wall of people who had just totally raped the river of, you know, 100, 150 fish a day.

45:24And it was a competition of who could take the most fish and all of them were being kept. I mean, it was unbelievable. So the people I was fishing with have a very different opinion of how to fish and Tenkara for them plays into catch and release a lot. It's not so much like Caru, which is often associated with taking so many fish. So it was an interesting experience, very different this year than last year about where I was fishing. So for those that aren't following along, each river system typically requires a local fishing license of a day or a couple of days. But it's not like one license for all of Japan or for one island. It's literally navigating a system of finding the license for that river or stream where you're fishing. Yeah, I think that's logistically probably the most challenging thing of fishing on your own in Japan is because like every, as you mentioned, it's like each area.

46:28And it's like sometimes it's a watershed, sometimes it's a branch of a river has its own license. I mean, it's kind of, it's incredibly confusing. And without like a local person, it can be really, really hard. But I think to Adam Chan's point, you know, like at one point I was actually fishing with one of the river patrols, you know, and these are mostly volunteers. And, you know, they go around and, but yeah, it's not like you're not going to get fined in jail. if you don't have a license it might be a little bit more expensive i've heard you know like the one time that i was fishing with a patrol and he found a couple of guys that didn't have licenses it was like he was super friendly to them it was not like a there's no animosity it's like you know just because i think they understand it can be challenging um and they had to pay like on the spot and it was an extra couple a couple dollars i think yeah uh but i've heard like of another place if you do get caught it doubles your ticket so usually a day license is roughly 10 bucks so maybe you'll pay 20 bucks but i think i'm kind of realizing if i were to go on my own and i can't find it i'll probably just fish right deal with it ask for forgiveness exactly permission or finding information it's it's not ideal you know not my main recommendation but it's uh you know make sure you have a couple of bucks with you.

47:49Yeah, some cash on you. They're not going to take credit cards. They're not going to have square up. Yeah. And there are some options, too, for for people who like, OK, so it's a similar situation for me where I made friends through the Internet, through a couple of different methods, actually through multiple people who connected me in different countries in Italy and Japan. It's great. But not everybody has has the ability to do that. Or maybe you just want to go there for a day or two. Isaac actually is a guide, Isaac Tate. He guides not just Tenkara, but he guides outdoor trips, climbing trips, skiing trips. So I think he focuses mostly on foreigners through his military base and their connections there. But he's available for hire for that. There are other fishermen or masters also who you can hire as a guide, which we did not need to do, which was very, very awesome. at the same time, you can do that and that will help you. And I recommend you do that because I hear that that includes often being picked up from the train station and email.

48:54You can email with them and get instructions about how to get there. So, you know, it may cost you a little bit, but that's worth someone's, you know, effort and time to help you out. And you shouldn't be shy, I think, about taking advantage of that because these are nice people and they know a lot and they can show you a great time too. Yeah, I think the biggest challenge there is I wish there was, and I've been trying to recruit a few people and let them know that there's a demand for guiding services. And, you know, because it is not really a part of the culture, you know, in the mainland of Japan to, you know, get paid to fish, it's kind of hard to find those resources. But, yeah. I'd like to, I know we're at about 50 minutes. there's a couple of things that I think you would like to know that I would like to talk about. Yes, please. Absolutely. And I want to make sure I respect your time because we're talking late at night and everybody's kind of got something to do. So let me know if we're running a little too long. But yes, please, Adam San. I'm pretty sure that Adam Chan wants to talk about this too.

50:01And basically, it's about, I want to, again, tell you, I really appreciate you for introducing me to Tenkara and Japanese, you know, Japanese Tenkara. Sebata-san, the way that you have portrayed him is excellent. He's a very kind soul of forager. But when he was young, he was a badass. this man is a climber fisher he we've seen some video of him now and I I've shared some video with you of him when he was younger but we were in the ban show and we saw some pretty amazing stuff that he was he was we were you know in his presence and him showing us these videos that were produced in Japan that are just on a different level of fishing than we know in our media more on the level of like the sawanabori the shower climbing with a fishing rod and amazing places where you can catch these fish in the side of a cliff in a little pool but he would he you know climbing and with a rope and tying a rope on a rock and then throwing the rock up above and wedging it.

51:31That was so baller. Yeah. And then just climbing up the rope to the next pool and catching fish. He is something. He is the number one guy as far as hardcore climbing and fishing that I have seen. You touch on it. Yeah. Daniel, you touch on it. But this guy's done it, and it's, what, I don't know how many decades ago it was. Well, you know, I take a lot of inspiration from him and, like, some of the stuff that I've seen. And it was not even until, it was not that long ago that he was really doing some of this very hardcore, kind of, almost like what I really enjoy doing, like mixing climbing and fishing. You know, it's, I think in Japan, there's a little bit better opportunities for that kind of thing. But, you know, like I think it was about three or four years ago that he came up with some kind of sickness. It might have been pneumonia or something that kind of took the wind out of him a little bit. But I remember I think it was maybe six, seven years ago, Dr. Ishigaki was telling me that just a few weeks before, Sebata-san, like, you know, took him somewhere and they had to jump this gap where the river ran.

52:47But if you fell, you'd fall like 100 or 200 feet or something. And, you know, I got to Ishigaki. He was just kind of telling me about this big trip. And he couldn't really – Ishigaki is not a climber. But this is like, you know, very recent where he was doing this really gnarly stuff for sure. So I'm glad you bring that up. He is something. It made chills go down my spine. Actually, when you just brought that up, it's kind of funny. watching sitting there in bancho watching those vhs videos on that old tv with them and by the way it's worth mentioning so it we mentioned how it rained and so we got back to bancho and it was raining so another party showed up that was unscheduled and uh they i guess they had been camping and they didn't want to deal with being out there and they showed up and they ended up being the the ex-editor or ceo of carry you magazine and some of his crew uh so they showed up. So we were at one at the big table and they had a separate table, but in the same room were these, these guys. And we were all around Sebata watching the video. And it was like one crew, like, like, uh, Ishii-san and Kura-san and their, their friends and, and, uh, Keiichi-san and some of his friends. And it was Sebata and some of his friends. And, and then it was these people and it was us from the U S and it was just this epic moment of like, like Sebata essentially bringing this all together, Sabato-san, bringing this all together.

54:15Excuse me. And I think that he's a figure who's a person who brings people together. And he's a special person. And he, man, the things that he could do, Adam described it perfectly. I hope we get to see those. They talked about hopefully getting that licensed. And I think they're going to work on that. And maybe we'll be able to download and buy a couple of these videos. I hope so. that'll be cool yeah that'll be uh very very cool actually um yeah and you know without taking too much of your time i want to make sure it's being almost an hour that i've kept you guys um but i was uh curious a little bit about uh you know like so both of you guys have visited japan a couple of times a few other people have gone um you know it's i want to say there's a wave of americans going to to japan to fish but uh have you guys talked to anybody there like what are they do you have any idea what they're thinking like or like why are these people coming here or any uh what are they thinking of people taking up to tenkara and then even going there i guess like their type of fishing being you know adopted in other places they like it that we do this and they want to spread it. And Adam Chan, maybe you can talk more about it. They're, you know, they're, Sabatazan is getting older. And the guys that we were with, they were, you know, my age, 40s, 50s. And, you know, they want to spread it and keep this going. And, you know, it's important because, you know, younger people have to get into it in order for it to be carried on.

55:56They were very happy that we were there. They know what we're doing right now is what they want to happen. They want us to spread it. And, you know, I don't want to get into the intricacies of what we're doing versus what they're doing. What they do in their fishing, these Ginru anglers, is a whole lot different than getting out of the car and, you know, hiking a mile relatively flat and, you know, just fishing. And they're mixing a little bit more of a little bit of shower climbing, a little bit of climbing and hardcore hiking. But they want to share it and they want it out there. Yeah, I think that's a good way of saying it. I think that they're intrigued with what's going on here and they definitely are watching what's going on here as well. They look to it. I think they know there's the power for some to sell rods and equipment and stuff like that.

56:59For others, there's just a love, as Adam said, of it being expanded and kept alive. And that's huge. And I think that some things that I noticed when I was in Japan is that when I was there this year and last year, part of my focus in going was not just to go fishing because, frankly, there's places I could fly here for cheaper that are different, not as cool, but that I could catch way more fish in, like Colorado, for example. But that's not why you go. And going there, part of the reason was about understanding Tenkara. Like I wanted to know more about, okay, what is this thing that we're doing here? You know, what is it in Japan? Why is it? And that's what I was watching for. And I learned a lot about that. And I think that, you know, there are different factions and different groups, but, uh, there is a thing that is Tenkara that is like, it's almost like terroir in wine. And I wish I could explain that to everyone. Maybe they'd understand, but it's like a place and a time and a climate and it makes a wine a thing. But that's what Tenkara is. It's like, it's like a time and a group of people and a place and of thing. And that place is 80% mountains. And those people are interested in fishing, not just for catching the most fish, not just for the sake of fishing. And there's a style that they use that has similarities across Japan. And that's interesting to learn about and watch. And I can't wait to do that more. Yeah, that's well put. And, you know, as we wrap up, do you guys have some plans to go back anytime in the near future?

58:41Two or three years for myself, I'll take my little son, Noah. I want to introduce him to international travel and Japanese Tenkara. So that was my excuse to go for the next trip. I'm married and, you know, I'm still happily married. And these trips are, they're a little expensive, but it's more about, you know, for me as a married person being away from my wife, she has no interest in fishing up a river valley in a foreign land. So, but my next trip to two to three years, and I'm already starting to loosely plan it and save and, you know, that sort of thing. And I figure I'll probably go every two or three years. That's what I can afford. And that's what I can do to get away from my job. How about you, Adam Chan? Any plans to go back? Yeah. I mean, unfortunately I haven't yet made an exact plan when I'll be able to do it next, but I am all in, you know, definitely will be going back. I hope to do it if not next year, the year after, you know, maybe whenever I can put it together, because honestly, it's just really, you know, even if you took, I hate to say this, even if you took the fishing, the Tenkara fishing out of it, Japan is still an amazing place.

59:59And it's more than just fishing. It's about the people you meet and the culture you see and the amazing sights. It's like being totally overwhelmed, your senses in every way. So my recommendation is go with an open mind. Well, excellent, guys. It was an incredible pleasure to talk to you both about this very recent trip that you had as Adam's son, Adam Tran, put on a message to me earlier. It's good that we're doing this right now so that your memories hopefully are still fresh, and it seems like they are. So I appreciate you making the time in your busy evenings here to chat about it. And hopefully our listeners will have enjoyed the conversation. But, you know, the conversation can keep on going. I'm going to post a link to both of your websites. If anybody has any questions, you can find it on the tenkarausa.com forward slash podcast. and you can probably connect easily with both Adams online on Facebook and so forth.

1:01:02But yeah, thanks so much for your time, guys. I really appreciate it. Nice to meet you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you very much for listening to the Tenkara Cast. I'd like to extend a special thank you to Nick Ogawa, also known as Takenobu. Check out his music at takenobumusic.com. We'll be posting links to any references we made in this podcast, such as Takenobu's music, on our website, www.tenkarausa.com forward slash podcast. And until next time on the Tenkara Cast.